good source for tractor paint?

[flusher]

I need to paint a small dozer, and when I went to teh john deere store, they wanted a arm and a leg for yellow industrial paint in a gallon can.

tractor supply didn't have industrial yellow.

Can you guys recommend a good supply for paint?

I'm refurbishing a 1966 MF-135 diesel that I bought last July. I bought the paint from Valu-Bilt

Valu-Bilt

MF Red Enamel (A952002, 105012)--$24.59/gal
MF Metallic Flint Grey Enamel (A952003, 105013)--$37.29/gal

Both paints are alkyd oil enamels distributed by Herschel-Adams

Herschel Corporate Website | Herschel Corporate Website

The paint is manufactured by Van Sickle

Tractor, Equipment and Industrial Enamel for Van Sickle

Van Sickle makes two grades of that paint--Good Quality and Best Quality. My guess is that I have the good quality grade.

The recommended thinner (reducer) for spraying is V&MP naptha (8 parts paint to 1 part thinner by volume).

You can get a hardener to improve glossiness, get faster through cure and improved hardness. But alkyd oil enamels dry without reducer to about 80% of maximum hardness. So I think I'll skip the reducer since the pot life with reducer is typically only about 3 hours. Also using the reducer is just another variable that allows me increased chance of screwing up the job.

Alkyd oil enamels are supposed to have superior weather- and fade- resistance. These qualities may be important if you're putting in a lot of time on a tractor restoration and don't want the paint to degrade too quickly. I plan to use my 135 to work 7 acres of hay farm so I'm not too concerned about paint fade. And I keep the 135 in the garage most of the time anyway.

Hope this info helps.

 

[flusher]

Oops!!

Had attack of brain latchup. The paragraph on hardeners should have read:

"You can get a hardener to improve glossiness, get faster through cure and improved hardness. But alkyd oil enamels dry without hardener to about 80% of maximum hardness. So I think I'll skip the hardener since the pot life with reducer is typically only about 3 hours. Also using the hardener is just another variable that allows me increased chance of screwing up the job."

 

[slowrev]

Rustoleum now makes tractor paint.
I am painting my old IH with rustoleum and coating it with rustoleum crystal clear enamel. The parts I painted 6 months ago still look shiny wet
About $25/gal.
Ben

 

[Sully2]

... I switched to a HVLP gravity spray gun. With more experience, I'm finding it takes me 35 or 40% less paint to more than adaquately cover a tractor. The massey took one quart of Flint grey metallic, and a single quart of red. I used the same reducer to clean parts and the gun when finished. Just shy of a gallon of that. I've painted several 135's over the years, using my old Binks #7 siphon gun. Usually used about double that amount of material. I painted in 4 stages, requiring 4 seperate mixings. That actually required MORE paint. (leftover already mixed with hardener) In one mix, I MIGHT have used even less.

You use that same HF gun that I bought to do my disks..dont you? Ive picked up all 3 sizes of their gravity fed guns over the last few months when they had them on sale. I got their "touch up" gun ( gravity fed model) for $9.95 on sale.. I'll use it "someday"...on "something"...lol

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You use that same HF gun that I bought to do my disks..dont you? Ive picked up all 3 sizes of their gravity fed guns over the last few months when they had them on sale. I got their "touch up" gun ( gravity fed model) for $9.95 on sale.. I'll use it "someday"...on "something"...lol

No HF paint guns here..... "Finish gun" is a Sharpe "Platinum", and primer gun is a Huskee brand from Home Depot. Both HVLP gravity feed. Cheap gun has painted a few tractors all over. It did an amasing job for a "cheap-o" model. Sharpe Platinum is a tad bit more expensive. Bought mine on Ebay.

 

[Sully2]

No HF paint guns here..... "Finish gun" is a Sharpe "Platinum", and primer gun is a Huskee brand from Home Depot. Both HVLP gravity feed. Cheap gun has painted a few tractors all over. It did an amasing job for a "cheap-o" model. Sharpe Platinum is a tad bit more expensive. Bought mine on Ebay.

Whoops! Sorry about that..I didnt mean to offend you!! All I remember is that someone here on the BB that paints tractor said he used the same HF guns that I had purchased.

Again..sorry about that!
EDIT: I did a search and found who it was...it was Soundguy.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Whoops! Sorry about that..I didnt mean to offend you!! All I remember is that someone here on the BB that paints tractor said he used the same HF guns that I had purchased.

Again..sorry about that!
EDIT: I did a search and found who it was...it was Soundguy.

No offense taken. I'm not sure, but I do believe I recall hearing Soundguy saying he uses siphon feed guns. I prefer the lower air pressure of the HVLP gravity feeds. Less overspray with its mess and wasted paint. Also using lower pressure reduces the size compressor needed. (Or lessens the load on your compressor) HVLP guns work at most odd angles. At least as much as a siphon gun will. (Can't turn them upside-down either) Most of all, I've found HVLP gravity style guns to be easier to master for us amatures.

In the end, neither style is "instant success". It takes practice. Either style can produce top quality paint jobs in the hands of a good painter.

Where the more expensive paint guns have it over the cheaper ones is their precision with different types of paint.

 

[mark777]

Just wanted to throw this out there....

Painting is a passion and my occupation for nearly 40 years, and even though retired from owning and operating many custom shops, I now do it leisurely and with great dedication to produce as absolutely flawless as humanly possible.

I know when good painters hear: "Prep is everything" they probably nod in agreement but it's not true with chemistry that is inferior (inexpensive) when compared to the higher line automotive finishes. Color hold out does not stand up over time. The BPS paints from TSC...and as much as I liked their (Valspar) products, FADE. And do so relatively quickly when compared to other high line finishes (PPG, Sikkens, DuPont etc..). I have painted several tractors, and the first four were with Valspars BPS, kept three tractors outside, and all painted at different intervals and one inside the shop. One- three years ago, two- years ago and the last one, last year. They all look like the base coat of a BC/CC system with no shine or reflectivity, and will come back with assorted abrasives, compounds and machine polishing...but who has time for that? I even went so far as to contact Valspars area representative AND his boss, the S.W. territorial manager and asked if a clear coat was available (I'm thinking a good clear saturated with UV screeners would add decades of life to my paint projects), after many conversations...in the end he said you get what you pay for.

Because I held my own with their (Valspar) chemists and sales managers they sent me a free pallet of paint, hardeners and reducers. The line is called "Restoration Series". I immediately prepared and painted my old Snapper lawn tractor and within 6 months the same results.

IMHO there is a hierarchy for paints and applications on vehicles and equipment. From toughest on down starting with the Polyurethanes (DuPonts Imron, PPG Delthane etc.). These are aircraft quality finishes that stay shinny even when exposed to constant temperature changes.
Polyurethane
Acrylic base coat + Urethane clear coat
Acrylic enamel (Optional clear coat)
Acrylic enamel (w/o clear)
Alkyd oil base enamel (plus hardener)
Oil base enamel

Unfortunately It's all about the money...

 

[Sully2]

Just wanted to throw this out there....

Unfortunately It's all about the money...

It makes a guy ( novice like myself) wonder when I can buy acrylic enamel from TSC at about $22 a gallon..and the automotive paint place wants $100 a gallon ( or more!!) for "acrylic enamel"!!!

 

[mark777]

I have seen some excellent paint work by many novices...it seems there's little difference in following certain disciplines for either a professional or a first timer. Perhaps the only difference is knowing what to do when things suddenly go wrong.

I would encourage anyone that is interested enough to shoot their own projects rather than taking them to the local body shop. The rewards of obtaining the knowledge and projects that turn out well are.. forever.

BPS (Best Paints Sold) sold at TSC is not an acrylic base paint. Valspar does cover the entire spectrum though. From their least expensive (BPS) to the most expensive 'shimerin metallic, produced for "House of Kolor" often over $300 per quart or $1000 per gallon.

 

[BTDT]

Ok, here's an out there question. What would it cost and how long would it last to powdercoat your tractor? Not the whole thing, but the parts that standout, hood, fenders, wheels. I know it would depend on which tractor, but say an 8n or something of similar size.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. I use a cheap gun.. and yep.. it does make some overspray. For what i do.. I don't mind it.

If I painted more than 1-2 things a year.. I might invest in a more expensive gun.. perhaps a 30$ one, ( laugh ).

Soundguy

No offense taken. I'm not sure, but I do believe I recall hearing Soundguy saying he uses siphon feed guns. I prefer the lower air pressure of the HVLP gravity feeds. Less overspray with its mess and wasted paint. .

 

[mark777]

BTDT,

I have had pieces powder coated for some fussy customers and the only, and certainly biggest problems, were the fact that the pieces must be factory new...or pristine in condition before they're pre baked. No fillers like lead, bondo or acrylic putties can be used as they are burned away during the baking cycles. Any slight deformation or blemishes become magnified once out of the oven. Also, there is no successful repair procedure for chips, cracks of collision damage and any one particular piece has to be flawlessly repaired, stripped back to base metal or replaced and redone. Other than that, It does an excellent job on projects that are for shows and trailer queens, but never see service in the fields again.

Soundguy, I have seen your work and especially your Allis G. In my opinion it is one of the nicest projects posted on TBN. It was a great read and tutorial...and an inspiration for others contemplating a DIY project. The ONLY thing I've wondered about was why you haven't stepped up to a professional grade gun? I did the math and found that by law a HVLP gun manufactured for use in the U.S. has to meet a minimum of 73% (CA. EPA) transfer efficiency and the gun your using is 25% or slightly less. Which is approx 75% waste of your sprayable materials. I've tried the box store $99 guns and their OK, but I discovered the Sharpe Finex for $30 bucks more and the transfer efficiency is almost 80% (which is the same as my $560. SATA). So for any sprayable material (primer, paint and clears) you are saving nearly $80 of every $100 spent....or LOL painting one tractor and three more for free.

If your cost conscientious like me (cheap) a gun like this one can pay for itself on a single, complete restoration project. Oh, and probably work better with your pancake compressor set up too.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

It makes a guy ( novice like myself) wonder when I can buy acrylic enamel from TSC at about $22 a gallon..and the automotive paint place wants $100 a gallon ( or more!!) for "acrylic enamel"!!!

You aren't buying ACRYLIC enamel at TSC for $22 a gallon. You're buying ALKYD enamel at TSC. Not much more than over-glorified glossy house paint of 1920's technology. If you're not concerned about the lifespan of your paint job, don't leave your equipment outside or use it regularly in a harsh environment, that's not a bad choice of paint. If you're painting something that you intend on KEEPING for some time, or it's going to get "normal use" for a tractor, then you might want to consider using something that's better than "barn paint". Even $100 a gallon would be considered "mid grade" on down to "cheap" paint.

I've heard the old argument that "cheap paint" is so affordable, you can repaint every few years to keep a fresh look. BOGUS CLAIM......... Every time you re-paint, you're building up paint material.. The surface coat isn't any better than the surface it's applied over. Plus, I want MY paint to hold up for a reasonable time frame like the OEM paint job. "Throw-away" paint applied multiple times won't get that done.

Just for the record, I've found better quality paints work better. (spray with less problems) The advantages of high quality paint are more helpful to us hack amatures than they are to good, experienced painters who KNOW the difference. A pro can take K-Mart house paint and make it LOOK good.

I still completely miss the logic behind painting a $3500, or $5000, or $10,000 or $20,000 tractor with cheap paint just to save $75. Any good paint job, with new decals too, will spend a couple hundred bucks minimum. By the time you figure in sandpaper, primer, thinner, electric for the compressor, filters for your dust mask, and all the other "incidentals", it's not hard to drop 3 or 400 bucks just for material on a quickie paint job. What's another $75 to make it a GOOD quickie job?

Here's 3 of the last 5 tractors I've painted. Massey uses OEM AGCO Acrylic Enamel. (Believe it's PPG made) Paint isn't even completely dry on this one yet. Ford uses DuPont Acrylic Enamel. Shot when it was too hot outside for reducer used Not my best effort. Deere is PPG "DEL-FLEET" . (OEM paint on Freightliner trucks, as well as paint of choice for UPS and FED EX jets) The Deere paint is 4 seasons old. (Picture taken this AM. Put rear blade on it for any snow the new year might bring) STill looks and shines like new. There's $490 worth of "product" sprayed on that one.

 

[Sully2]

Yep.. I use a cheap gun.. and yep.. it does make some overspray. For what i do.. I don't mind it.

If I painted more than 1-2 things a year.. I might invest in a more expensive gun.. perhaps a 30$ one, ( laugh ).

Soundguy

That $30 is the SALE PRICE...right???...LMAO!!!!

 

[Sully2]

You aren't buying ACRYLIC enamel at TSC for $22 a gallon. You're buying ALKYD enamel at TSC. Not much more than over-glorified glossy house paint of 1920's technology. If you're not concerned about the lifespan of your paint job, don't leave your equipment outside or use it regularly in a harsh environment, that's not a bad choice of paint. If you're painting something that you intend on KEEPING for some time, or it's going to get "normal use" for a tractor, then you might want to consider using something that's better than "barn paint". Even $100 a gallon would be considered "mid grade" on down to "cheap" paint.

Acrylic..?...Alkyd..? Lordy..Im getting light headed here...lol

BTW: The tractor pics look GOOOOODDD partner..

Im with ya on going cheapie on items... Like painting a custom car using a roller?? It just dont work right...

My stuff has to sit outside...but I set impliments down on 4x4's so they arent in the dirt..and always keep stuff tarp'd over so rain / snow..etc isnt on them. Someday an impliment shed..*sigh*...but I have to start out small and work up.

 

[Partsman2]

I think mark777 hit the nail right on the head as far as paint qualities go. The cheapest being the ready to spray alkyd enamel you get at a place like TSC for $25 a gallon up to polyurethane (Imron) for several hundred $ per gallon.

I am a Dupont/Standox paint distributor and sell to all of the high end body shops in our area. When a body shop is willing to pay $100 per pint for the paint and another $200 a gallon for the clear, plus an additional $150 for the additivies it tells me that paint quality is very important. These guys don't want jobs coming back nor will they run the risk of getting pegged with a bad reputation from bad quality paint jobs. It is a proven fact that you get what you pay for.

With that said there is another matter here that has not been addressed. The quality of prep was touched on which is key but primer quality has not been addressed. Somebody did mention that the top coat only looks as good as the material it is painted over which is very true. Thus, it would be a total waste of money to spend $500 or $600 on Imron paint if you are going to put it over top of a cheap lacquer primer. It will look good at first (maybe) but it will be a short time before the primer underneath fails and the the paint falls in and loses it's gloss. Think of the primer as the foundation of a house. You don't build a house on sand do you?

Primers are the same as paint in that you get what you pay for. You can get a cheap ready to spray lacquer primer for less than $20 per gallon or you can buy a top of the line urethane or epoxy primer for $200 per gallon plus with additives. I'll let you guess which grade of primers the high end body shops use.

As for paint guns, I wouldn't recommend spraying paint that cost $500 a gallon through a $30 paint gun. You better stay with the ready to spray enamel.

What grade of paint you use all has to do with what you want from the end result. If you just want rust protection and don't care about long term appearance a decent primer and cheap paint will probably serve your purpose. If you are restoring something to show or to keep as your pride and joy then you need to lay out the cash for the good stuff.

 

[Partsman2]

BTW - Farmwithjunk said it very well also. Using a good quality primer and a good brand of acrylic enamel with a hardener will make a nice looking job that will last indefinitely if the equipment is kept inside.

But even this grade of paint will begin to show signs of fading in about 3 to 5 years if left in the weather. Also, reds and oranges fade the fastest and are the most expensive. Clear coats will help reduce fade.

 

[kenmac]

Farm ,It appears that you are doing a very detailed job on those tractors & they look very nice. I wouldn't skimp on the paint quality detailing these things as you are.

Partsman, I have painted (or painted at) some of the race cars that I have had. I have always got my paint from the local guy that owns an auto. paint store . He can mix to match most any color & he uses dupont paint.

 

[Soundguy]

Actually, i have considered upgrading to a better gun setup.. especially hvlp.

Also.. i finally upgraded my air supply as well.. I got a 5hp 27 gal compressor. It made my last few painting projects soooo much easier... that batwing mower took lots of paint.

Thanks for the nice comments on the allis G. it was one of my best pieces. ( ford 5000 is pretty good too. )

Soundguy

Soundguy, I have seen your work and especially your Allis G. In my opinion it is one of the nicest projects posted on TBN. It was a great read and tutorial...and an inspiration for others contemplating a DIY project. The ONLY thing I've wondered about was why you haven't stepped up to a professional grade gun? I did the math and found that by law a HVLP gun manufactured for use in the U.S. has to meet a minimum of 73% (CA. EPA) transfer efficiency and the gun your using is 25% or slightly less. Which is approx 75% waste of your sprayable materials. I've tried the box store $99 guns and their OK, but I discovered the Sharpe Finex for $30 bucks more and the transfer efficiency is almost 80% (which is the same as my $560. SATA). So for any sprayable material (primer, paint and clears) you are saving nearly $80 of every $100 spent....or LOL painting one tractor and three more for free.

If your cost conscientious like me (cheap) a gun like this one can pay for itself on a single, complete restoration project. Oh, and probably work better with your pancake compressor set up too.