Good morning!!!!

[PJSprog]

26°F and clear skies this morning, going up to 50° today.

No major plans for today. Need to go to Walgreens in Highland to pick up a few things, and probably stop at Rural King. Wife bought some delicious oranges and grapefruits there last week. Going to get some more. After that, probably spend the rest of the day in my studio.

She noticed something flapping on the front door during the windy day earlier this week - Thursday, I think - and went out to find a bag hanging on the door from out LP supplier. It contained a Xmas card and a notice that they'd refilled (80%) our propane tank on Monday. Not sure why they left it on the front door, as the guy knows we only use the back door. Bill was $233 and change for 147.3 gallons at $1.49/gal. That should hold us for most of the winter. We'll probably have to fill again in March.

 

[Looking4new]

My driveway before I plowed it.


And after plowing.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

She noticed something flapping on the front door during the windy day earlier this week - Thursday, I think - and went out to find a bag hanging on the door from out LP supplier. It contained a Xmas card and a notice that they'd refilled (80%) our propane tank on Monday. Not sure why they left it on the front door, as the guy knows we only use the back door. Bill was $233 and change for 147.3 gallons at $1.49/gal. That should hold us for most of the winter. We'll probably have to fill again in March.

My propane supplier did the same thing back in October. I was home and waiting for him with a couple of 5 gallon picnic bottles I also wanted him to fill. But he never knocked on the door and I didn't hear his truck:confused3: The gauge was reading 5% before the fill up, it's a 350 gallon tank, and they only put 217 gallons in it. Should have put 280 gallons in (80% of 350), so the gauge must be way off. FWIW, propane, like everything else out here, is more expensive than in the rest of the world. $2.13/gallon.:shocked:

 

[RedNeckGeek]

RNG, your situation is pretty unique, so you have to plan accordingly. That means a big tank.
I had to go there because I learned not to depend upon my supplier in emergencies.
Great feeling of satisfaction and security knowing I have 800 gallons in a tank out there.
Costs me 25 bucks a year plus fuel, currently at 2 dollars a gallon. Your prices may vary...
Get a big tank and put a sight fence around it, maybe with a sprinkler system installed
on the back of the fire resistive or non combustible fence...

If fire overruns your place, would a diesel tank be safer than a propane one? Probably.
I have both. Little diesel, big propane. And no fire risk, not when you average 70-80 inches of rain a year.
Tornado yes.
How long do the hottest temps impinge on the tank before all the local burnable material is used up?
If one is close to a really big forest and the whole thing catches on fire, the radiant heat will burn up a lot of local stuff.
If one is not close to a big forest and has landscaped their property to reduce fire fuel load,
then you are like RNG who still has a home to come home to. I'm sure RNG is now determined to do even more than he did before.
Because it clearly works.

Good points all, Drew. The morning of the fire, I was hearing propane tanks explode up the mountain, several an hour. My tank sits on a gravel pad on a terrace I cut into the hill side, so fire can only get at it from one side. There are no trees or bushes nearby, and about 100' of field grass (that I keep cut very short) before the forest starts. That must have been good enough, because the tank was still full when I returned. FWIW, I forgot to turn off the main valve at the tank before I left, but someone did for me while I was away. That said, though, judging from the way only the lower foot of most of the damaged trees burned, leaving the rest of the tree intact, I think the fire came through the next morning when the winds had abated. It could have been a whole 'nuther deal had they been blowing like they were when Paradise got torched.

There's plenty of room for a bigger tank. I'll have to check on the rental fee. I think I'm paying about $40/year rent on the one I have now (350 gallons). I also wonder if they'll have to do something to supply a higher flow of gas to a standby generator, and what size line it'll take to get it to where the generator will be installed. I've got a good propane supplier and they've been very helpful in the past, and they are fortunate enough to have come through the fire in Paradise unscathed. I'm sure they could use the business, as a large portion of their customer's homes went up in smoke.

Fire season started in late April this year, and didn't end until almost December. It was an unusually long and dangerously dry and hot summer, preceded by a long and wet spring that allowed plenty of fuels to grow. My meadow grasses were up to the hood of the Kubota by the time they started to dry out and I chopped 'em up with the flail mower. That left a mat of grass clippings on the ground thick enough to prevent much of the yellow star thistle from sprouting. But it was also enough to conduct fire throughout the property. Everything here burned except the 30' wide perimeter of concrete, gravel, and decomposed granite that surrounds the house, pump house, and yard where I store my tractor implements.

As far as improvements go, I think that location of the tank is pretty safe. But the weeds have been coming up at an astonishing pace since the rains started, so last week I sprayed much more of the area around the house with a mix of glyphosate and pre-emergent. The glyphosate has killed everything, but we'll have to see how well the pre-emergent keeps it dead. The idea is to widen that 30' non-combustible area by up to 100', but I haven't figured out yet what to cover it with. No plants, and decomposed granite would be carried off the hillsides by rain runoff. Maybe river cobble, as it wouldn't be carried away,. But it will let weeds grow, and unless I'm careful how I put it down, I wouldn't be able to ride the RTV over it and spray. I don't trust weed proof cloth to do the job because I don't think it's a forever solution. Can't imagine having to replant all those cobbles every few years, as I had to do that once at the last house and it wasn't much fun.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

RNG, not sure how big the generator is that you were talking about, but 2 gals/hr seems high. I have a small 5k generator that runs propane only. Last big outage we had lasted for almost 4 days. I was supplying power to a 27cf refrigerator, 21cf, freezer, range, 2 high velocity fans, and multiple LED lights. Also intermittent items such as cell chargers and a coffee maker. At the time, I was using the small 20 lb tanks (approximately 4.5 gal). Over that period, I used 3 1/2 tanks, so, 88 hours \ 15.75 gal = 0.17 gal / hr. Granted, this was not running a whole house or heating /cooling. I was really surprised at how little it used.

I was looking at a 22kW Kohler LP fired generator, Ted. At 3/4 load, it'll use a little less than two gallons of propane an hour. Air conditioning is a must here in the summer during fire season, and I also need to power a 3/4 HP well pump and another 1/2 HP jet pump that gives me water pressure. Most of my lighting is also LED, and a lot of my electric bill covers the shop equipment, which I wouldn't be running in an emergency. So I could probably get by with a smaller generator, but when I looked at consumption rates for a 17kW one, they were even higher as the engine on it ran at 3600 RPM instead of the 1800 RPM of the larger one. The larger generator was also water cooled with an aluminum shroud, vs. air cooled with a plastic shroud. I'd rather have more capacity than I need if it gets me higher durability and reliability.

But that brings up another elephant in the room: Many reviews of both Generac and Kohler generators in this size range tell how the generators failed to start when a real power outage came along, even though they'd worked fine during monthly or even weekly test runs. And that neither Generac nor Kohler were very easy to get support or spare parts through. Not a very appealing situation when you spend upwards of $7K for a system that's supposed to supply water pressure in a fire emergency. So now I'm looking at Cummins generators that use Kubota Diesel fired engines. In spite of all the trouble I've had with my Kubota tractor, I have yet to have engine trouble, and the dealer has been very good for parts and service.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

My driveway before I plowed it.
...
And after plowing.
...

More power to ya, L4N. But I sure am glad that isn't MY driveway!:shocked:

 

[ronjhall]

I was looking at a 22kW Kohler LP fired generator, Ted. At 3/4 load, it'll use a little less than two gallons of propane an hour. Air conditioning is a must here in the summer during fire season, and I also need to power a 3/4 HP well pump and another 1/2 HP jet pump that gives me water pressure. Most of my lighting is also LED, and a lot of my electric bill covers the shop equipment, which I wouldn't be running in an emergency. So I could probably get by with a smaller generator, but when I looked at consumption rates for a 17kW one, they were even higher as the engine on it ran at 3600 RPM instead of the 1800 RPM of the larger one. The larger generator was also water cooled with an aluminum shroud, vs. air cooled with a plastic shroud. I'd rather have more capacity than I need if it gets me higher durability and reliability.

But that brings up another elephant in the room: Many reviews of both Generac and Kohler generators in this size range tell how the generators failed to start when a real power outage came along, even though they'd worked fine during monthly or even weekly test runs. And that neither Generac nor Kohler were very easy to get support or spare parts through. Not a very appealing situation when you spend upwards of $7K for a system that's supposed to supply water pressure in a fire emergency. So now I'm looking at Cummins generators that use Kubota Diesel fired engines. In spite of all the trouble I've had with my Kubota tractor, I have yet to have engine trouble, and the dealer has been very good for parts and service.

My B&S generator has always started when a power failure occurred. Except when I had a brown out power failure. Then the floating voltage kept generator starting and stopping. I installed a disconnect between meter and transfer switch. Solved the potential for generator not starting on when voltage is low. I knew voltage was low because one of my battery backups was beeping away. After that episode I installed a digital voltmeter to check both legs.
I had a surge guard on my Motorhome. It monitored high and low voltage and shut down incoming power whenever the voltage was out of range. It was 50 amp. There should be one on every whole house generator. I have not found one for 200 amp yet.
Not a plug for B&S. They all have some kind of problems.
I was also looking at Kubota and Cummins generator before I got the B&S. Was out of my price range.

 

[jbrumberg]

Good Afternoon Everyone!!!

Dump run day.

Today's high temperature occurred at midnight at 50ºF. Another disturbed sleepless night due to the neuropathy. Walk #1 it was a drizzly foggy 50ºF at 4:30AM. Walk #2 it was a breezy 48ºF and as I type it is 34ºF and winds are 15-20 mph gusting to ~30-35mph. We are currently under a Wind Advisory. A lot of "warm" rain fell last night; the snowpack around here is almost gone (~33% remaining), but it is looking likely that Phil and I may get ~1 maybe a little more with a short wave passing through 12/24-Christmas.

12.27-12.28 looks to be another inside runner with rain for the coastal midAtlantic/NE CONUS with the northern tier snow and interior NE CONUS track and elevation dependent mixed/snow and central CONUS gets snow including the SW this time.

Early January looks promising for snow

BEF- I am glad you got your power back.

Randy- Hard as your grief is to deal I am happy to read that you and Ellen were able to share the pain and the love.

Bill- I am liking what the weather models are reflecting for early January. I like your description of events Thanks for sharing your snow management pictures.

Phil- Kayakers were running the white water on the West branch of the Westfield River today. That can only happen when most moving water is at/near flood stage around here. Like you there was little to no Fall lawn & field care.

"... Blame the strong pacific jet stream and a moderate ElNino for the wild weather and a sudden stratosphere warming event which dislodges the polar jet and sends it south but not sold on its staying power. In the end by Spring we on the east coast start to enter a very long drought."- Buppies. The million dollar ?. That polar vortex could be displaced a lot this Winter with all the Pacific and stratospheric energy. Similar past weather patterns as our current pattern have resulted in dry/drought conditions for the eastern CONUS.

Thomas- This early morning's warm temperatures were a surprise. Every time I go out and about around here I find more downed trees and tree limbs, and with the melting snowpack lots of leaves and "other stuff" which I try not to step in.

I hope that everyone is having a decent weekend so far,

My + thoughts, wishes, and prayers.

 

[Looking4new]

Bill- I am liking what the weather models are reflecting for early January. I like your description of events

j, that was copied and pasted from TCWs web site. I am not that well spoken.
As far as my weather goes. From now until about May we can expect to see snow and cold and maybe some rain. the same as it has been for me for 71 of my 72 year of age. (I wintered in Florida 1 year).

 

[daugen]

PJ, you are paying what the big farmers pay here, wholesale, for propane. That's a really good deal.
Perhaps with the drop in crude prices the cost of propane is coming down also.