Good battery, crank but no start.

[MelroseFred]

Hello everyone, I have a Long 350 with a Perkins engine. The tractor was running fine. I turned it off and went to start it again on a different day and it is acting like the battery is dead. The battery is brand new - bought it in Oct - and it was starting the tractor just fine. I took the battery out of my Tundra and it is doing the same thing. I had the first battery tested under load and it shows it’s fine with 900 cca. I know little about gas engines and nothing about diesel engines so I’m seeking help on diagnosing it.

I’ve checked the ground cable to ensure it is tight against the block and that the cable is tight on the battery and the terminal is tight on the cable.

My thoughts are it is either 1) a starter issue, 2) the hydraulic pump that is running off of the front PTO that is used for the loader is locked up restricting it from turning over properly or 3) it is some type of vapor lock or something internal.

Can anyone provide input on how to properly diagnose the issue?

Here’s a video of me trying to start it:

IMG_3959

This is "IMG_3959" by Willie McGibbs on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DJ54]

Usually if it's a grounding issue, if you have any dash lights come on before starting, they will dim or go out when you try to start the engine.

I'm assuming the positive cable goes to a solenoid. Check that for tightness, and small wires that activate the solenoid.

If either is loose, sometimes you may hear a slick click, like a fuel solenoid. Not familiar with a Long, you may have a manual shut off.

If you hear no click at all from any solenoids beyond that would be safety switches. 4 come to mind. Neutral safety switch, clutch, seat, and PTO. Neutral safety switches can get worn and you need to move it around a little to find that sweet spot. PTO could have accidently been engaged. Don't know if you need to be in the seat to start or clutch depressed or not. For what safety switches it may have you can disconnect wiring connector on the safety switch make a short jumper wire and jump across them to complete the circuit. Just make sure the tractor is in neutral first.

 

[Oaktree]

My first question would be is the engine cranking or not? The thread subject implies that it is, but your post itself implies it's not.

Not familiar with this brand, don't know how complicated/simple the fuel or electrical system is. If it's a "no crank" situation looks like some probing with a voltmeter/test lamp is in order to see where you have voltage and where you don't. If it does crank, maybe fuel shutoff?

 

[dodge man]

It sounds like a starter to me but could be old/bad battery cables.

 

[Roadworthy]

Start at the battery. Remove cable clamps and clean contact surfaces well. Inspect wire entry point for corrosion. Replace clamps on battery and tighten securely. If you can move or rotate them they're not tight. Follow ground cable to the frame and repeat the process. Be sure cables are tight on starter and solenoid.

 

[lman]

Did you try to jump start it with jumper cables?

 

[Gator6x4]

Since you have ruled out the battery as the problem. Go to the next link in the chain and see if that is okay.

Relay - Solenoid

• On the Starter Motor: The most common location is a smaller cylindrical component attached to the side or top of the main, larger starter motor assembly. You can locate the starter motor by following the heavy-gauge battery cables from the battery.
• Fender or Under the Dash (less common): If it's an external solenoid, it may be mounted on the fender wall or potentially under the dash panel.

Verification
To confirm the location, you can:

• Follow the wiring: The small wire from your ignition switch's "start" terminal will lead to the small terminal on the starter solenoid/relay.
• Listen for a click: Have a helper turn the key to the start position while you listen for a distinct "click" sound. The sound will come from the component that is activating, which is usually the solenoid/relay.

Many older tractors, like the Long 350, use the solenoid body for grounding, so ensuring a clean, secure mounting and good ground connection is crucial for proper operation. If you're having starting problems, the issue may also be related to safety switches (such as those for the seat or neutral position).

 

[etpm]

So many times folks with the exact problem find out it is a bad connection. Usually the negative battery cable to frame connection. Just because the connection is tight doesn't mean the connection is good. Try using jumper cables directly from the battery to the starter. If this works then you have a bad connection(s) or a bad cable(s) or both.
Eric

 

[garry1p]

From the sound you don't have enough voltage at the starter, I suspect one of the battery cables is bad internally (positive side internal corrosion) or the starter itself is failing.

You will need a volt/ohm meter to find the problem.

 

[MRTOES]

On the hydraulics side of the issue, do you have quick connects? A connector that comes undone will block the pump line and even stall the tractor when running.

 

[MelroseFred]

Okay, wanted to update everyone on the tractor. First, thank each and everyone one of you have provided a comment. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment and all of your help.

I was able to get the tractor to turn over:

Video of tractor turning over

By a slight margin, the majority of the comments indicated a bad ground. I bought a new cable from Tractor Supply and cleaned the ground mount and installed the new ground cable and it turns over as you can see in the video.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t get it to start but that could be that it’s in the low 50s/high 40s here in Florida today. It smoked a lot, but would not fire. To my knowledge, it doesn’t have a block heater so I’ll just have to wait until this weekend when it’s forecasted to be in the low 70s. If it won’t fire then, I’ll be back to see if I can get some help in getting it fired up.

 

[S854]

Your second video shows definite improvement… if the only thing you did was to replace the ground cable, that cable was part of the issue…

How long has it been since you replaced the fuel filter?

 

[MelroseFred]

Your second video shows definite improvement… if the only thing you did was to replace the ground cable, that cable was part of the issue…

How long has it been since you replaced the fuel filter?

I’ve only owned the tractor a couple months, so I haven’t replaced the filter. I’ve found a website that sells a kit of basically all of the filters where I’ve going to purchase the filter.

 

[Mcdust]

Hello everyone, I have a Long 350 with a Perkins engine. The tractor was running fine. I turned it off and went to start it again on a different day and it is acting like the battery is dead. The battery is brand new - bought it in Oct - and it was starting the tractor just fine. I took the battery out of my Tundra and it is doing the same thing. I had the first battery tested under load and it shows it’s fine with 900 cca. I know little about gas engines and nothing about diesel engines so I’m seeking help on diagnosing it.

I’ve checked the ground cable to ensure it is tight against the block and that the cable is tight on the battery and the terminal is tight on the cable.

My thoughts are it is either 1) a starter issue, 2) the hydraulic pump that is running off of the front PTO that is used for the loader is locked up restricting it from turning over properly or 3) it is some type of vapor lock or something internal.

Can anyone provide input on how to properly diagnose the issue?

Here’s a video of me trying to start it:

IMG_3959

This is "IMG_3959" by Willie McGibbs on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, try giving the starter a belt with a hammer while someone holds the key in start. If it works take the starter in for a rebuild.

 

[Gator6x4]

Hi, try giving the starter a belt with a hammer while someone holds the key in start. If it works take the starter in for a rebuild.

Careful of how hard that belt with a hammer is. Most people tap on the starter.

 

[rv7charlie]

Unfortunately, I couldn’t get it to start but that could be that it’s in the low 50s/high 40s here in Florida today. It smoked a lot, but would not fire. To my knowledge, it doesn’t have a block heater so I’ll just have to wait until this weekend when it’s forecasted to be in the low 70s. If it won’t fire then, I’ll be back to see if I can get some help in getting it fired up.

The video appears to show your starter motor issue is fully resolved. No glow plugs on that motor? If it has them, did you activate prior to start attempt? If yes, then the switch or relay that preheats the glowplugs may be defective, but having 2 independent problems at the same time seems like low probability to me.

 

[Fred in BC]

Sure sounds like a fuel problem now.

I would give it a short shot of ether.
If you don't like to use ether, WD40 is a safe starting fluid for diesels. (I don't like WD40 otherwise)
Funny how some diesels are hard to start, but once you run them hard for an hour, the act like they had a tune up.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Careful of how hard that belt with a hammer is. Most people tap on the starter.

but if you use a belt, no problem

 

[Mcdust]

Careful of how hard that belt with a hammer is. Most people tap on the starter.

Good point, depends on the size of the hammer (haha)

 

[PA-Kubota]

If it has glow plugs, check for voltage at them along with current draw. Could also check resistance of each, but AMP draw is better test.