GM Seatbelt Issue

[BillyP]

My wife had an accident where another car pulled out in front of her and they collided. Everyone was OK, so that was great. My wife's seat belt (06 Chevy pickup) didn't catch and she jammed her thumb against the steering wheel. No big deal, had x-rays and everything was fine just some bruising and swelling. Anyway, a friend of mine that is a Service Manager for a Chevy dealership saw the seat belt and suggested I call GM to notify them of some kind of defect. I call and spend 2 hours on the phone with this lady. She said some kind of investigator would contact me within 24 hours. $ days later this guy from GM calls and asked the same question as the lady. He asked me what I wanted. I said nothing, that I figured GM might want to know about the seat belt issue. He asked me if I wanted them to look at it. I said I figured GM would want to. He said only if I wanted them to. I then said yes, come looked at it. He then said I would have to have it towed to a GM dealership (not drivable) and the would have someone come look at it. I told him to forget it. If GM doesn't care any more than that then I don't either.

My question is...

Shouldn't GM have at least came and looked at it on their dollar??

Excuse me if this doesn't make much sense but I'm in a hurry.

 

[gordon21]

Man: What do you want?

You: A quick settlement within 10 days, no herd of lawyers and I can forget the whole thing for $75,000. If you guys take longer than 10 days to settle, then I call the law firm of Schiester, Scheister and Nail-them and we go for the big money.

Do NOT let them take posession of the car. For all you know, they could have a major safety problem and be looking at dozens of lawsuits scattered around the country. If they get the car, your proof is gone.

Seatbelts would fall into that category of exploding gas tanks and airbag problems. I can't remember which auto maker had a recall because their selt beat sensor was way down under the carpet and once it got damp it would not work properly.

 

[RonMar]

They probably know all about the "seat belt" issue. It sounds like you were transfered from an information gatherer to a claims/legal representative. Send them a bill for the X-ray/diagnosis as(thankfully) that is your only claim against them. I bet they would pay it with very few questions asked...

 

[BillyP]

Do NOT let them take posession of the car. For all you know, they could have a major safety problem and be looking at dozens of lawsuits scattered around the country. If they get the car, your proof is gone.

I didn't becaus it was towed to a body shop and I doubt the insurance company would want to pay for the extra tow (I know I wasn't). The service manager told me it took sometimes 2 months for GM to come around. I couldn't do without the truck for that long. I think they were banking on that.

 

[BillyP]

They probably know all about the "seat belt" issue. It sounds like you were transfered from an information gatherer to a claims/legal representative. Send them a bill for the X-ray/diagnosis as(thankfully) that is your only claim against them. I bet they would pay it with very few questions asked...

You are exactly right except them knowing about the seat belt issue. I don't know whether they did or didn't. That was my whole point of contacting them.

As far as the ER visit and x-rays, that's no big deal. His insurance is paying for that. My insurance called and told be to submit a claim on our Medical Payment but I told him it was already taken care of.

All I wanted was for GM to investigate a potential safety hazard. They didn't even give me the satisfaction of that.

If I (and I hope I don't) ever hear of a GM seat belt failure and pending lawsuit my wife and I will be there to testify for the plaintiff.

 

[jdbower]

Chances are if any money is spent investigating this a formal NHTSA report would need to be filed by either you or GM. Obviously this is a horribly expensive thing for a car company to do and I'm guessing the vast majority of reports end up as "works as designed" (for example, if you're in a 5mph crash and the airbag doesn't go off). If you think this is a one-off issue I would probably ignore it. If you think this could be a flaw in the manufacturing or design you can go to the NHTSA directly and have them investigate:
IVOQ - File a Complaint

I'm sure dropping their name to GM may make them pay a little more attention...

 

[1bush2hog]

Chances are if any money is spent investigating this a formal NHTSA report would need to be filed by either you or GM. Obviously this is a horribly expensive thing for a car company to do and I'm guessing the vast majority of reports end up as "works as designed" (for example, if you're in a 5mph crash and the airbag doesn't go off). If you think this is a one-off issue I would probably ignore it. If you think this could be a flaw in the manufacturing or design you can go to the NHTSA directly and have them investigate:
IVOQ - File a Complaint

I'm sure dropping their name to GM may make them pay a little more attention...

I went thru a similar incident when my son t-boned a lady that pulled out in front of him and his airbag did not deply. He was driving a 2003 Jeep Wrangler and hit the lady at an appx. speed of 45-50mph.

I called Chrysler as I would have thought the airbag should have deployed. Chrysler sent an engineer out to survey and evaluate and I received a letter about 3 weeks later stating that everything was working properly as designed.

What a joke! Or maybe I just don't understand how airbags are intended to operate.

Fortunately no one was injured in the accident, and we no longer have a Wrangler.

 

[Timber]

I have to commend you for not looking for a Law suit and a Pay day at the drop of the hat. We live in a strange world where every one thinks they deserve millions of dollars because there coffee was to hot or there cheese burger made them fat. It is fribaless law suites the make the medical profession so scary that nobody wants to be a surgeon and Insurance rates and cost is passed on to every one of us. Things happen and people make mistakes. Mechanical things fail. I would want to know why it didn't work and have it fixed though. I would not want and air bag to deploy with out my seat belt working properly and that repair should be part of the overall repair to the vehicle

 

[BillyP]

Chances are if any money is spent investigating this a formal NHTSA report would need to be filed by either you or GM. Obviously this is a horribly expensive thing for a car company to do and I'm guessing the vast majority of reports end up as "works as designed" (for example, if you're in a 5mph crash and the airbag doesn't go off). If you think this is a one-off issue I would probably ignore it. If you think this could be a flaw in the manufacturing or design you can go to the NHTSA directly and have them investigate:
IVOQ - File a Complaint

I'm sure dropping their name to GM may make them pay a little more attention...

Thanks for the link, Jeff. I just got off the phone with the DOT Vehicle Safety Hotline. We'll where it goes from there.

Thanks again.

 

[BillyP]

I have to commend you for not looking for a Law suit and a Pay day at the drop of the hat. We live in a strange world where every one thinks they deserve millions of dollars because there coffee was to hot or there cheese burger made them fat. It is fribaless law suites the make the medical profession so scary that nobody wants to be a surgeon and Insurance rates and cost is passed on to every one of us. Things happen and people make mistakes. Mechanical things fail. I would want to know why it didn't work and have it fixed though. I would not want and air bag to deploy with out my seat belt working properly and that repair should be part of the overall repair to the vehicle

Timber, the seat belt will be covered under warranty. If someone ever has to do an investigation on GM seat belt failures there will be a record. I'm just glad no one was hurt. That's really all that matters. What really concerns me is if she had been going 50 or 60? As you can probably tell, I'm a firm believer in wearing seat belts.

 

[Shimon]

We live in a strange world where every one thinks they deserve millions of dollars because there coffee was to hot or there cheese burger made them fat.

You are right on that issue. It is a strange world. We can try to blame the lawyers but they are just a symptom and byproduct of a larger problem. The root of the problem is the approach our "lawmakers" take towards governance.

We live in a country (world) where legislation is the answer to every problem; legislation is what determines our actions and responses to everyday occurrences. A sense of right and wrong, a sense of ethics and morality and a sense of commonness (aka common sense) are irrelevant; legislation is king. The problem with legislation is that it's an inexact methodology. Any law you make naturally created loopholes. Legislation is black and white and the problem is we live in a shades of gray world. And the only way to fix those loopholes is...more legislation. We can legislate till we are blue in the face and we still won't be able to predict or prevent human response and action.

So now that we have an overbearing number of infinitely complicated laws we need lawyers to help us wade through the mire. But since many people are dishonest and have no integrity they use the lawyers (who are more than willing) to take advantage of system which is easy for anyone equipped with the proper knowledge and logic to find those loopholes. "Lawyers" are just taking advantage of a system which we have created. We obviously didn't intend the system to be abused this way but we set it up, we voted for it, we created this untameable beast.

What's the solution? I don't think there is one. The other option is to scrap our heap of legislation and go with the golden rule (do unto others...) but that leaves room for judgment which leads to corruption, favoritism and all that other good stuff. Or we can try to continue the death spiral of further refining our current legislation. Choose your poison.

As for your seat belt. I think you did the right think by trying to get GM's attention and trying to let them know they might have a problem. And I'm sure there are some people at GM who are genuinely concerned. But they need to play the game. If they show concern, they show weakness and the vultures will swoop in and sue the pants off GM. So, GM circles its' wagons and quietly hopes you will just go away.

 

[BobRip]

You are right on that issue. It is a strange world. We can try to blame the lawyers but they are just a symptom and byproduct of a larger problem. The root of the problem is the approach our "lawmakers" take towards governance.

.

I think most of your points are well taken. However, the problem is not the lawyers and the legislature are separate groups, but that they are the same group. Basically there is a conflict of interest where lawyers who are now legislatures vote for laws that help them in their former careers and/or future careers. This creates a system of lawyers for lawyers and by lawyers. It would be silly to not have lawyers in the legislature, but it should be balanced with other professions. Also the National Trial Lawyers Assocation (I think that's the name) gives a lot of money to the legislatures.
I would like a third body of legislatures whose sole job is to eliminate laws, and only require 1/3 of those eligible to vote to allow this elimination. It's kinda like a line item veto, but done by a group. If a law is so bad that even 1/3 of the people think it is bad, then it should probably be eliminated.

 

[KAB]

Back on subject... (Don't take this the wrong way.)

I don't think you have provided enough information about the accident, it takes a bit a movement before the seat belt will latch. Did her thumb stop her forward movement prior to the seat belt catching?

I am just trying to make you stop to think about this, not trying to get more information.

Somebody posted about an airbag not going off. Did you know that there is more than the speed you were travelling at the time of the accident that determines if the air bag deploys? Did you know that a vehicle could be totalled (frontal type collison) and no air bag deployment?

Here is an excerpt from an 06 Silverado Owners manual concerning airbag deployment:

Frontal airbags may inflate at different crash speeds. For example:

• If the vehicle hits a stationary object, the airbags could inflate at a different crash speed than if the vehicle hits a moving object.

• If the vehicle hits an object that deforms, the airbags could inflate at a different crash speed than if the vehicle hits an object that does not deform.

• If the vehicle hits a narrow object (like a pole), the airbags could inflate at a different crash speed than if the vehicle hits a wide object (like a wall).

• If the vehicle goes into an object at an angle, the airbags could inflate at a different crash speed than if the vehicle goes straight into the object.

The frontal airbags (driver and right front passenger) are not intended to inflate during vehicle rollovers, rear impacts, or in many side impacts.

In any particular crash, no one can say whether an airbag should have inflated simply because of the damage to a vehicle or because of what the repair costs were. Inflation is determined by what the vehicle hits, the angle of the impact, and how quickly the vehicle slows down.

Some of the new safety features on vehicles don't always work the way that they used to, or the way they expect them to.

Kurt

 

[gemini5362]

Well I am of the opinion that the seatbelt should have worked correctly when needed. Seatbelts are a useless item unless you have an accident. You dont need to wait until your physical safety is on the line and then hope it works. If it does not work then someone needs to find out why. Is it just a normal equipment breakage or is it a design defect. If it is a design defect then GM needs to have a recall.


It is interesting to see the comments about lawyers and legislation from people that are not lawyers and dont write laws. A lot of things goes into legislation to make it do what the writer wanted. Not only does it have to legislate what it is intended for but it has to protect rights. We have a group that decides if a law is correct or not I believe they call that group the supreme court. Saying that we have bad laws and trashing lawyers is very similar to me saying that farmers only have to throw seeds into the ground water and wait for crops. I dont farm so from where I sit it looks easy. I am sure that being an attorney is not nearly as easy as it looks. Just like I am very sure that being a farmer is a LOT of work. If you dont like the people that are legislators vote for someone else or run yourself. I dont believe that there is an educational requirement to run for these offices.

 

[BillyP]

Back on subject... (Don't take this the wrong way.)

I don't think you have provided enough information about the accident, it takes a bit a movement before the seat belt will latch. Did her thumb stop her forward movement prior to the seat belt catching?



Kurt

Kurt, all I can tell you is there was no prior to the seat belt catching. The belt would not retract to it's original position after the accident. It was like when you pull the belt out to buckle up but it doesn't retract against your body (the best I know how to explain it) She was going approximately 25 MPH when the guy pulled out from a business. The collision was front to front.

 

[KAB]

Billy

Thanks for the extra information. I did check to see if there was a service bulletin for the 06 trucks and there was not. (translated - no acknowledged problems)

I tried to find if that truck had something referred to as Energy Management. If it has it (I can't find it through my typical sources) the seat belt acts as a cushion to help prevent chest injuries. I have no idea if the seatbelt works as normal after it has been used. I have been hearing that it should not be uncommon to replace the seatbelt after an accident due to the stresses put on it. Are they replaced? I have not been asking that question of the body shops that I work with.

 

[jdbower]

I have been hearing that it should not be uncommon to replace the seatbelt after an accident due to the stresses put on it.

Safety mechanisms are much more complex than they were a few years ago and often don't behave as expected. In 1950 if you hit a tree you'd marvel at how little damage the car had taken. These days you marvel at how much the car's crumple zones gave to protect the passenger - even though it looks like a mess it's actually a much safer vehicle.

I'm not familiar with GM's safety innovations, but my truck's belts have explosive pretensioners. If enough stress is put onto the belt a small explosive (like used in an airbag) will deploy to help the seat belt do its job - that means that this mechanism will likely need to be replaced once it's used.

 

[BillyP]

The seat belt will be replaced under warranty. It's non functional now (it's pulled out and won't retract).

Thanks everyone, for your comments.

 

[BobRip]

It is interesting to see the comments about lawyers and legislation from people that are not lawyers and dont write laws. A lot of things goes into legislation to make it do what the writer wanted. Not only does it have to legislate what it is intended for but it has to protect rights. We have a group that decides if a law is correct or not I believe they call that group the supreme court. Saying that we have bad laws and trashing lawyers is very similar to me saying that farmers only have to throw seeds into the ground water and wait for crops. I dont farm so from where I sit it looks easy. I am sure that being an attorney is not nearly as easy as it looks. Just like I am very sure that being a farmer is a LOT of work. If you dont like the people that are legislators vote for someone else or run yourself. I dont believe that there is an educational requirement to run for these offices.

You are right and I apologize for slamming lawyers. However my main purpose was to point out the inherent conflict of interest in our system with lawyers regulating lawyers. I would like to see everyone who runs for Congress be required to run a small business for 5 years, so that they could have that perspective. On the other hand, I see the mess in Iraq and I think how much better our legal system is than their theocracy (or whatever it is). It's not the lawyers acting as lawyers that is the problem. It's the lawyers regulating lawyers.

 

[gemini5362]

Thank you Bob I agree with your sentiments. The problem that I see with congress is not what they do for a living it is how far removed they are from what everyone else has to do to survive. How do you really understand the need for healthcare when you have free health care for the rest of your life when you have entered the legislative branch of the government. How do you understand trying to live on socal security when you get your salary for the rest of your life and you dont have to pay anything in. How do you really comprehend how hard it is on minimum wage to just survive when you are at least in the upper middle class of the nation in terms of income. I am a firm believer in term limits. That keeps someone from spending the rest of their adult life in congress and on a regular basis gives everyone an even playing field in elections. Even with all the problems that we have. I have lived overseas a couple of times and traveled overseas a lot and I still think it is better than what anyone else has.