glossery of terms?

Soundguy · Jun 29, 2005

Someone a while back posted a link to a glossery of terms. I'm trying to find it to use it as a reference. I'm having a discussion with a fellow on another board and he is jumping up and down about a 2-stage clutch not being live pto. I'm looking for somewhere to point him to read up on it.

His only definition of live pto is, as he refers to it.... 'live independent pto'..
( Anyone ever heard of non-live independent pto?? )

Soundguy

Indydirtfarmer · Jun 29, 2005

I don't have a "black and white" printed dictionary on tractor terms, but "Live" PTO and "independent" PTO aren't the same critter. Very close, but not the same. Live uses the 2-stage clutch, and independent uses a SEPERATE clutch, USUALLY a hydraulic actuated clutch.

Have you ever noticed there's no shortage of people willing to argue the simplest of points????

METHINKS PEOPLE LIKE TO ARGUE! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

ronjhall · Jun 29, 2005

Here is the link the thread I have saved. Click Here

Soundguy · Jun 29, 2005

( but "Live" PTO and "independent" PTO aren't the same critter )

yeah.. and??? who said it was?? Point is.. a independent pto is live.. and a 2-stage clutch makes for a live pto as well?

( Live uses the 2-stage clutch, and independent uses a SEPERATE clutch, USUALLY a hydraulic actuated clutch. )

As was pointed out above.

( Have you ever noticed there's no shortage of people willing to argue the simplest of points????METHINKS PEOPLE LIKE TO ARGUE )

I don't mind if they like to argue.. but when they argue a wrong point.. that's the issue.

The fellow stating that a 2 stage clutch was not live pto is headded off in slightly the wrong direction.. by thinking that only independent pto is live.

For what it's worth.. after some checking, I can find instances of independent pto being NON-live. I know of at least 2 tractors that had single plate clutches that had aftermarket independent pto additions ( marketed as such ) and when you stomp the 'main' clutch down everyything stops. To get the 'live' action, you have to pull a hand clutch which more or less clutches an axle, while still allwong the countershaft driven pto to spin.. etc.

Soundguy

Indydirtfarmer · Jun 29, 2005

( ( but "Live" PTO and "independent" PTO aren't the same critter )

yeah.. and??? who said it was?? Point is.. a independent pto is live.. and a 2-stage clutch makes for a live pto as well?

Soundguy )

Who????? Your debating partner who called it "Live Independent PTO"... By lumping them together, he, in my mind, considers them as one.

RalphVa · Jun 29, 2005

At first glance, I think of a live pto as being on all the time. However, I think it means it stays working at the same speed independent of tractor forward or reverse speed. A 2 stage clutch is just another way of achieving that. Push in part way and the tractor stops or can be eased forward or reverse by letting out a little bit. PTO stays same speed, only dependent on engine rpm.

Many PTOs (even the 2 stage clutch kind) usually have a separate means of turning them off and on, either mechanically or with a clutch or solenoid or lever. They stay on until that switch or lever are reversed, or a clutch for them is depressed. Or, lately, the engine's turned off when actuated by the safety switch on the seat if the PTO is on.

Ralph

Soundguy · Jun 29, 2005

Right. I wish the fellow I was conversing with had a good understanding of it as you do.

Soundguy

hudr · Jul 7, 2005

I always thought an independant PTO had its own clutch. All of our old 2cyl JDs had a hand clutch for the engine and a separate foot lever to engage the PTO.
Our new tractors have 2-stage clutches. You press down to the forst 'detent' and that disengages the engine, go to the floor with it and the PTO clutch disengages. The 2 stage clutch just takes a little more 'finesse' to swap gears w/o disengaging the PTO. With me on it, its a live PTO. I can feel the detent and leave the bush hog running while I grab another gear. With my wife on it, its not live. All she knows it press it till it won't go any more. And I was always told women had a gentler touch. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Don't know if this helps, but good luck. Seems once someone has their mind set, the sky might as well actually BE green.

TractorLegend · Jul 7, 2005

I have teenagers at home---I hate to miss a good argument lol /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Soundguy · Jul 8, 2005

( I always thought an independant PTO had its own clutch )

I don't think anyone here has stated otherwise?

( All of our old 2cyl JDs had a hand clutch for the engine and a separate foot lever to engage the PTO.
)

Just having an engage/disengage lever on a pto does not effect whether it is independent or not. how/where it gets its power from in relation to the drivetrain and drivetrain clutch is the issue.

( With me on it, its a live PTO. I can feel the detent and leave the bush hog running while I grab another gear. With my wife on it, its not live. All she knows it press it till it won't go any more )

My last modern tractor with a 2 stage clutch had a flip out bar that stoppe dthe clutch travel after the first detent was reached.. made shifting easy.. just press the clutch till it bottoms ont he lever.. drivetrain is clutched.. pto is not.. shift and go. this was a NH1920

Soundguy