Global Warming?

[IslandTractor]

You have somewhat oversimplified this........

Just trying to help:dance1:

This explains the concept
It has to do with being frugal with our current energy usage, as well as finding cheaper, more sustainable sources.
Basic Information | State and Local | US EPA
This is the cost breakdown
Breakdown of Funding

Don't bother trying to actually debate CAT. He seems capable only of quoting newspaper articles and then declaring victory followed by the dittohead tribal dance. He rarely if ever can manage responding to a counterpoint. I presume it's because he's too busy scanning the net for more headlines or fumbling with his caps lock key.

 

[IslandTractor]

Your final statement was political in nature, and a big battle can break out on that point alone. So, you are quite right...it is easy to slip into global warming while discussing politics.

As he noted, it is hard to stay completely away from political issues on this topic especially as the science has become so politicized. We may just need to accept a modicum of woofing and hyperbole. Kinda like discussing rival sports teams. Damme Yankees!

 

[RobertBrown]

Your final statement was political in nature, and a big battle can break out on that point alone. So, you are quite right...it is easy to slip into global warming while discussing politics.

OK.......
It was in response to, and enhanced a comment, that was political nature, so naturally it was........
Now...I'm thinking..... your just trying to annoy me :laughing::laughing:.
Although it amuses you, and, maybe me, it's not entertaining, counterproductive, and unsuccessful.
Just what is your opinion on this Climate change issue? Is it happening or not?

 

[RobertBrown]

As he noted, it is hard to stay completely away from political issues on this topic especially as the science has become so politicized. We may just need to accept a modicum of woofing and hyperbole. Kinda like discussing rival sports teams. Damme Yankees!

Dam STINKIN Yankees!

 

[RobertBrown]

Don't bother trying to actually debate CAT. He seems capable only of quoting newspaper articles and then declaring victory followed by the dittohead tribal dance. He rarely if ever can manage responding to a counterpoint. I presume it's because he's too busy scanning the net for more headlines or fumbling with his caps lock key.

By acknowledging your point I quickly become an antagonist, I don't want to be that guy. So I'm going to be unresponsive!

He's doing the best he can. I for one wish he could be more objective:
objective
   [uhb-jek-tiv]
adjective

1.being the object or goal of one's efforts or actions.
2.not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.
3.intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.
4.being the object of perception or thought; belonging to the object of thought rather than to the thinking subject ( opposed to subjective).
5.of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality.

Just in case someone wonders what it means :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

Just in case someone wonders what it means :thumbsup:

Objective is a word used by commies. Be careful using that word or you could be seen as a useful fool.

 

[toppop52]

Interesting reading:

Saudi Arabia reveals plans to be powered entirely by renewable energy | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Saudi Arabia reveals plans to be powered entirely by renewable energy

World's biggest oil producer says it wants to make a 100% switch from fossil fuels to clean energy

"Oil is more precious for us underground than as a fuel source," he said. "If we can get to the point where we can replace fossil fuels and use oil to produce other products that are useful, that would be very good for the world. I wish that may be in my lifetime, but I don't think it will be."

------------------------
It seems that even the country with a vast supply of fossil fuels has a vusion too the future and ia looking to make the best use of its resource.

Loren

Little Rhody could probably do that as well, but not California and certainly not China in anything resembling our millennium.

 

[IslandTractor]

Little Rhody could probably do that as well, but not California and certainly not China in anything resembling our millennium.

We agree for a change. Still makes sense to try rather than just doing the same old same old.

 

[EE_Bota]

As he noted, it is hard to stay completely away from political issues on this topic especially as the science has become so politicized. We may just need to accept a modicum of woofing and hyperbole. Kinda like discussing rival sports teams. Damme Yankees!

OK.......
It was in response to, and enhanced a comment, that was political nature, so naturally it was........
Now...I'm thinking..... your just trying to annoy me :laughing::laughing:.
Although it amuses you, and, maybe me, it's not entertaining, counterproductive, and unsuccessful.
Just what is your opinion on this Climate change issue? Is it happening or not?

My opinion on the climate change issue: It is mostly a political issue outside of science. But inside science, it is mostly a maturity issue. It takes a while for science to mature, and people want to debate or act on the science hot off the presses. I suppose they consider the issue urgent.

I don't know enough to know it is immature..I just seem to sense that it is. We only know in retrospect, so we can be forgiven speculation.

I'm not sure whether there is an issue or not that is actionable by us (the regular citizen) regarding AGW, but we should act on our energy issues, the one's we actually see and can reasonably predict. We should act to defend our autonomy and our wallets, and much of that would help mitigate AGW provided it is caused by hydrocarbon usage. If we do that, that will take away some of the urgency some feel, and allow time for science to perk.

 

[IslandTractor]

My opinion on the climate change issue: It is mostly a political issue outside of science. But inside science, it is mostly a maturity issue. It takes a while for science to mature, and people want to debate or act on the science hot off the presses. I suppose they consider the issue urgent.

I don't know enough to know it is immature..I just seem to sense that it is. We only know in retrospect, so we can be forgiven speculation.

I'm not sure whether there is an issue or not that is actionable by us (the regular citizen) regarding AGW, but we should act on our energy issues, the one's we actually see and can reasonably predict. We should act to defend our autonomy and our wallets, and much of that would help mitigate AGW provided it is caused by hydrocarbon usage. If we do that, that will take away some of the urgency some feel, and allow time for science to perk.

Agree.

 

[tcreeley]

People must wear blinders to not see climate change taking place- or live in a totally controlled AC/heat environment - or live in an urban setting where everything looks a pale asphalt gray- did I forget the fake green turf- sorry! They probably have to check the weather forecast to see if it is raining, or to see if the sun is shining. They probably have never seen a night sky full of stars- just pink hallugenic light!

 

[toppop52]

Who's arguing that the climate doesn't change, not me?! The climate is and has always been, constantly changing. Not my argument at all. The impetus thereof is another point entirely.

 

[madmax12]

I agree with the Sheiks of Araby on this point. Oil is the starting point for manufacture of plastics and other materials that are far more valuable than fuel. Why not preserve such resources for future use if we can substitute renewables? There is a balance point out there somewhere between Gore and Cheney.

I would support this view.

It is not my desire to be limited to using oil as a fuel or hindering the modernization toward solar, wind, etc. I would prefer all energy options pursued, and self sustaining energy solutions the world wide... Where no one relies on another country for energy supply.

If brevity is possible, my concern is with the many trappings that adorn the "green movement/philosophy."

If I can also be conservative minded, Creator loving, freedom producing, limited govt. wanting, prolife defending, traditional marriage defending... while also being "green," I'm IN.

 

[RobertBrown]

If brevity is possible, my concern is with the many trappings that adorn the "green movement/philosophy."

What does this mean?
If you don't mind, I'm going to need you to take it down a notch or 2, (your response) .....intellectually.
Thanks

 

[EE_Bota]

People must wear blinders to not see climate change taking place- or live in a totally controlled AC/heat environment - or live in an urban setting where everything looks a pale asphalt gray- did I forget the fake green turf- sorry! They probably have to check the weather forecast to see if it is raining, or to see if the sun is shining. They probably have never seen a night sky full of stars- just pink hallugenic light!

Science is pretty expensive relative to just accepting your weather observations as evidence. I guess scientists have blinders on, and insist on doing the research anyway even though they all should be able to plead the case of their own local weather.

 

[IslandTractor]

If I can also be conservative minded, Creator loving, freedom producing, limited govt. wanting, prolife defending, traditional marriage defending... while also being "green," I'm IN.

I don't equate green with liberal or conservative. However, if one is truly green then investing national resources to protect and extend "alternative" energy options and sources for the future should not be any more difficult than supporting NIH to improve health or DARPA for defense.

 

[madmax12]

I don't equate green with liberal or conservative. However, if one is truly green then investing national resources to protect and extend "alternative" energy options and sources for the future should not be any more difficult than supporting NIH to improve health or DARPA for defense.

Investing wisely in technology, for future benefit...makes sense, green or not.

My wife bought an LED night light today. It claims to burn 90% less electricity. But, there's a catch. When the bulb burns out, it has to be shipped to a POBox for them to replace the whole fixture.

Can someone explain to me how that is green or more efficient???

I'm all for using less electricity. But how many people are just going to be filling land fills with entire night light fixtures, because the bulb burnt out?...and the bulb cannot be replaced???

 

[IslandTractor]

Investing wisely in technology, for future benefit...makes sense, green or not.

My wife bought an LED night light today. It claims to burn 90% less electricity. But, there's a catch. When the bulb burns out, it has to be shipped to a POBox for them to replace the whole fixture.

Can someone explain to me how that is green or more efficient???

I'm all for using less electricity. But how many people are just going to be filling land fills with entire night light fixtures, because the bulb burnt out?...and the bulb cannot be replaced???

LEDs last for about 50,000 hours. A night light would therefore (at 10hrs/day) last for about twelve or more years. In all likelihood it is a disposable device and would simply be replaced. Getting ten or more years use out of such a product, when it saves multiple incandescent bulb replacements and energy, seems pretty "green" to me.

 

[madmax12]

LEDs last for about 50,000 hours. A night light would therefore (at 10hrs/day) last for about twelve or more years. In all likelihood it is a disposable device and would simply be replaced. Getting ten or more years use out of such a product, when it saves multiple incandescent bulb replacements and energy, seems pretty "green" to me.

Hmmm... Well, we'll give it a go!

I know we had one of those new fangled flat ones, with a green "panel" light that was supposed to be "green"... It started to lose lighting in patches, then all gone. Don't think we got a year out of that one.

IT, do you use these LED night lights? How long have you had them? Do you like them?

 

[IslandTractor]

Hmmm... Well, we'll give it a go!

I know we had one of those new fangled flat ones, with a green "panel" light that was supposed to be "green"... It started to lose lighting in patches, then all gone. Don't think we got a year out of that one.

IT, do you use these LED night lights? How long have you had them? Do you like them?

I don't use night lights except for one in my daughter's room that is a shell from Hawaii with a xmas tree bulb glued to it. I do have a bunch of LED flashlights which are WAY better than halogen or anything that came before. Haven't sprung to replace my full sized Mag light yet but that's just because I haven't seen them on sale yet.

I've replaced most of my outdoors convenience lights with motion detector battery powered LEDs rather than replace regular bulbs when they blow. So far I have gone about a year with the one on the back porch that lights virtually every day for 5-10 minutes on the original set of AA batteries. Ultra easy to install. I use these things now in the basement too rather than searching for pull strings (old house) and in some closets. I also have a little gooseneck battery powered book lamp that clamps to the book, weighs next to nothing, and is great for reading in bed or on a plane. Battery powered LED lights are great. They make sense for automobile lighting too and are starting to be featured as standard equipment.

Not ready for prime time as CFL replacements in regular lamps and such though. LEDs are way too expensive in the normal 40W-100W equivalent sizes ($10 each after the $20 utility company rebate at point of sale) and IMO they don't have the color right yet. In another few years though I'd bet CFLs will be gone for most uses and replaced by the LEDs.