Global Warming?

[SkyPup]

There has not been a new nuclear powerplant built in the USA since 1973 (no new oil refineries since then either....).

The dwindling supply of uranium enrichment plants began after two U.S. facilities, Hanover and Oak Ridge which were built after World War II, shut down due to massive radioactive contamination, leaving nuclear power-plant owners dependent on the Russians for a supply of fissionable material. And the Russians are going to cut the supply of HEU to the US in half by the year 2013, since they need it for their own power plants.

The price of uranium ore has gone up 800% in the last four years and is basically unobtainable until the pump all the water out of the collasped mine in Canada, which is not planning on reopening until 2010...and by then the price of uranium ore could be increased another tenfold.

In the meantime, we get almost all of our fissionable HEU uranium supplies from Russia as a part of the dismantling of their nuclear warheads.

A true "Black Hole" for energy resoruces if there ever was one......

 

[Chuck52]

N80,

I guess we disagree on Al. I don't know what else he could do, as a single individual, that would have a real impact on the problem, other than what he is trying to do, which is bring it to popular attention. I don't know what kind of car he drives, and whether he flies commercial to get around the country. I read his argument as requiring societal measures. The "drop-in-the-bucket" argument about our affect on global warming really does apply to individuals.

BTW, part of my problem with any discussion on TBN that brings up politicians by name, is that it seems to me that it is only OK to cite the folks on my side of the political spectrum for their "errors". In the bad old days before politics was banned here on TBN, both sides took their blows. These days, it seems to be OK to go off on Gore, Bill, Hillary, Kerry, Kennedy, etc, regardless of the topic. The lame "invented the internet" comment gets old after a bit.

None of my publications have any direct bearing on global warming. I don't claim any special knowledge in the area whatever, and my particular degree has almost as much relevance to tractor maintenance as it does to global warming. Since I broke the steering gear in my Kubota L210 while out plowing my driveway with my boxblade this Saturday I wish I had studied tractors.

Chuck

 

[BB_TX]

New report on msn.com says studies have shown that the Alps are the warmest they have been in 1300 years. That means they were that warm 1300 years ago. Goes on to state there were similar warm periods during the 10th and 12th centuries. Must have been a lot of people polluting the air back then also.

 

[Chuck52]

The Russians are also a major player in the oil and gas business. Perhaps we should all learn Russian. I hear they are good with poisons, too. Could be useful for my pest problems.

Chuck

 

[Doc_Bob]

I was trying to express that the whole global warming issue tends to get clouded in emotion and politics, and that if I am going to be persuaded by any argument, I prefer a reference to a peer reviewed journal versus a quote by someone in talk radio or politics.

"Peer reviewed" in no way provides any assurance that what you read is without politics, bias, agenda or lies. It just means it is peer reviewed.
Bob
PS yes, I have "published" in a peer reviewed journal.

 

[SkyPup]

"New report on msn.com says studies have shown that the Alps are the warmest they have been in 1300 years. That means they were that warm 1300 years ago. Goes on to state there were similar warm periods during the 10th and 12th centuries. Must have been a lot of people polluting the air back then also."



Geez, the entire population of the Earth back then wasn't even 10 million people, nothing compared to now.

The eruption of Mt. Pompeii probably cooled things down a bit since then too.

 

[SkyPup]

The Russians are also a major player in the oil and gas business. Perhaps we should all learn Russian. I hear they are good with poisons, too. Could be useful for my pest problems.

Chuck

Here's some info about what I was talking about with the Russians supplying all of our nuclear fuels for the foreseeable future......it's a freebie from the Wall Street Journal today:

Nuclear Power Revival Could Encounter Hurdles - WSJ.com

 

[Bird]

it seems to me that it is only OK to cite the folks on my side of the political spectrum for their "errors". In the bad old days before politics was banned here on TBN, both sides took their blows. These days, it seems to be OK to go off on Gore, Bill, Hillary, Kerry, Kennedy, etc, regardless of the topic.

I started this thread, with no intention of it being political in any way, even though Tom accused me of it just for using the words "Global Warming?" in a joking way. But I'm afraid it actually has drifted into politics. I guess different individuals define what is and what is not "political" in different ways. I didn't consider it "political" as long as I didn't name politicians, criticize anyone in particular, try to convince anyone of anything, or recommend any particular course of action by anyone. And since I was apparently the one who erred in the beginning . . . well, I've left it to the other moderators to decide how bad I erred and whether this thread should be closed, deleted, or what.

 

[SkyPup]

Russian Academy of Sciences Predicts Global Cooling:

Russian Scientists Forecast Global Cooling in 6-9 Years - NEWS - MOSNEWS.COM


“The Kyoto initiatives to save the planet from the greenhouse effect should be put off until better times,” he said, referring to an international treaty on climate change targeting greenhouse gas emissions.

“The global temperature maximum has been reached on Earth, and Earth’s global temperature will decline to a climatic minimum even without the Kyoto protocol,” Abdusamatov said.

 

[Chuck52]

Bird,

You did absolutely nothing wrong. Your post was apolitical. Global warming, with or without capitals, should not be viewed as a political subject. Unfortunately, very nearly anything you can think of to discuss can be linked to politics. I think the thread has gone OK. Only two on my list of potential candidates for snide remarks have been hit so far. Not bad for this group.

Chuck

 

[Chuck52]

Russian Academy of Sciences Predicts Global Cooling:

Russian Scientists Forecast Global Cooling in 6-9 Years - NEWS - MOSNEWS.COM


“The Kyoto initiatives to save the planet from the greenhouse effect should be put off until better times,” he said, referring to an international treaty on climate change targeting greenhouse gas emissions.

“The global temperature maximum has been reached on Earth, and Earth’s global temperature will decline to a climatic minimum even without the Kyoto protocol,” Abdusamatov said.

Yeah, well, our Academy of Science can kick their Academy of Science's butt!

Chuck

 

[IH3444]

Skypup, I read that Russia article about 6 months ago about global cooling, funny that it seems to be about the same time the sun will be on it's downward slide to cooling off also. We are now suppose to be on the top of the curve (hottest) of the sun's 22 year cycle. I had also read in Nature mag about 3 years ago that it is believed the earth's core is actually radioactive material keeping everything molten. Makes sense since heavier materials are draw to the core by gravity. Large nuc furnace at the core......need to tap that thing! Woo-Hoo.

 

[SkyPup]

LOL

Chuck, you'd think that with Russia selling us $12 Billion of uranium each year for our "Clean" (CO2 neutral) energy production, and the price going up astronomically each and every year, they'd at least publish some science that would lock us in as a customer for the next hundred years or so?

Maybe, the cost per BTU for air conditioners during global warming is much greater than the cost per BTU for heaters during global cooling and it's just a scam to cash in?

 

[Chuck52]

SkyPup,

Lord only knows. On the other hand, direct manipulation of Science was something of a tradition in the old Soviet Union. No doubt as they adjust to a free market economy they'll learn to use money to do the same job, like we do! At least that's what I've heard. No one has shown the least interest in bribing me. DagNab it.

Chuck

 

[SkyPup]

I sure wish the appreciation of my portfolio paralleled that of the price of Uranium, it makes oil and gold look like child's play......


Your right about the manipulation of Science in Russia by Lysenko and Stalin, I have six Ukranian post-doc geneticists in my laboratory, it has taken them a long time to catch up!

 

[1948berg]

Sorry, but I'm not up to date on my Norwegian translations. Could you translate this for us?

It just miiiight be some truth in that global warming talk!
http://www.dagbladet.no/tegneserie/pondusarkiv/tmp/7d6d86707718208809672f234ad59a71.gif

 

[CurlyDave]

Chuck,

I also don't have an education and probably wouldn't score very high on any IQ test....Eddie

Eddie:

I don't believe that for a second.

Dave

P.S. If you were anywhere near my part of the country, I would be hiring you to build my house. There is a difference between a "book learning" education and one from experience.

Some people get one kind, some get the other, most don't get either.

 

[N80]

Bird,You did absolutely nothing wrong. Your post was apolitical.

I agree completely. I would also say, taken as a whole this thread has been civil and educational

Global warming, with or without capitals, should not be viewed as a political subject.

I could agree with this in principle. The fact is, that boat has sailed. Global Warming is now a globally political hot potato. ( Is Dan Quail around? I'm not sure I spelled potatoe correctly....how's that for balance?). There are too many people on both sides of the issue with political and ideological investments in it. It is almost impossible (or even reasonable) to discuss the issue without considering those investments. But, as I said, for a bunch of weekend warrior tractor jockeys we're doing a pretty good job of it.

I think the thread has gone OK. Only two on my list of potential candidates for snide remarks have been hit so far. Not bad for this group. Chuck

We're all big enough to shrug off a snide remark or two aren't we?

I would like to throw a couple of things in the mix that I think worthwhile to consider. First, the nuclear issue. Nuclear energy was very methodically and successfully stifled in this country by left leaning environmentalists. I doubt there would be much debate about that. And god forbid that I point at the Europeans with anything but contempt but they have handled nuclear energy quite well. In any case, fast forward, and you have the very same type of people if not the very same people telling us that we must now break our dependance on fossil fuel because we are going to fry in our own atmosphere. They killed nuclear energy which for all practical purposes hooked our wagon to the two headed monster, dependance on foreign energy and the middle east. They also assured that our very own resources (Gulf of Mexico, ANWAR) were off limits and even production (refinerys) were hamstrung. And now all they can suggest, in any real or practical sense, is that we just get along without the energy we need and desire. They have no solution to a monster that they created! Why should I believe them now or even consider trusting their "science". How many times does their science and their advice have to be absolutely wrong and disastrous before we quit believing them?

Second point. We (the US) are not going to be the problem child for long. China, India, the Pacific rim and to a lesser degree Russia, are poised to eclipse us economically and industrially. (They will probably eclipse us militarily as they form tacit allegiances with our terrorist enemies upon whose rock our ship has foundered.) And rest assured, China, India, Russia and the Pacific rim have no interest in environmentalism. It is their turn to grow and conquer and prosper. We can wring our hands and gaze at our navels and bask in self contempt about how bad we have been to the environment but these guys are going to make us look like choir boys. And in this regard, is it even fair for us to tell them that they can't have their day? In the 1800's we raped and pillaged this continent to get to the point we are now. Is it fair for us to tell them they can't do the same thing with their continent? I think not. It certainly opens us to the charge of hypocrisy anyway.

Which brings me to this final point, which is not my own. A few years ago there was an article in Atlantic Monthly about this. The gist of the article was that no one really knows if global warming is real or if we caused it or not. Given our current addiction to fossil fuel and the ascension of Asia, it makes no difference. Even if we did have the power to affect globle climate, we don't have and won't have the power to fix it. There is no government budget, global economy or global will that has nearly the money or science to fix the problem even if we did cause it. So if its real, we better just learn to deal with it.

I'm planning on buying some ocean front real estate in Asheville, NC.

 

[Doc_Bob]

I started this thread, with no intention of it being political in any way, even though Tom accused me of it just for using the words "Global Warming?" in a joking way..

Your intentions were good. But global warming is by its very nature a hot button, political issue. You had no intention to make it political, it just is.
Bob

 

[Bob_Young]

N80:
Very well said; my hat's off to you!

May I suggest that the motivation for the lefty environmentalists in Point 1 had more to do with bringing the U.S. to a state of economic and industrial eclipse than it did with protecting the environment.

Plus, they play these games here because they CAN play these games here.
Bob