Global Warming?

[2LaneCruzer]

For you AGW believers, start putting pressure on the world to put pressure on China, India, South American and African countries as well as Eastern Eurpopean countries, they are the ones doing the lion's share of polluting. No point in squeezing our industry to death just so the work can go overseas to worse polluters.

You know Randy, as I see it, you have just pointed out the biggest problem with the AGW debate...politics. Advocates on both sides (not necessarily the scientists, but they are guilty of this too) eagerly jump into the political debate Re: what ought to be done about it. To me, it is just about as absurd to totally disregard the argument for AGW as it is to implement draconian measures without more. More importantly, advocacy of politicians is OFTEN full of logical holes, irrational arguments and just plain BS such that they no longer have credibility. This solves no problems, just leaves everyone unconvinced of anything. Both sides have their agenda, and it overshadows the science and colors any conclusions we can draw therefrom.

 

[IslandTractor]

This Daily Mail piece episode is a great example of why you should not get your science information from tabloids. Will the deniers be quoting the National Enquirer next?

I don't know who the journalist is but he is clearly a hack looking to grab a headline. And, SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE , the dittoheads bought it hook line and sinker.

Just look at the article in detail and it makes little sense. How could a big data set support the notion of AGW for several decades and then adding a few more years data suddenly destroys the theory? Ever heard of background noise or random variation? Ever thought of waiting for critical review and perspective before swallowing the bait? If Babe Ruth goes 0 for 5 in a given game after years of slugging, do you leap to the conclusion that he is washed up?

The dittohead cheering section here (Top, Rain, Cat, Slash, Brin ? Others (sorry Bota you don't qualify as you actual make well reasoned posts and we need a few good skeptics)) will undoubtedly continue to cite this tabloid piece for years as "proof" there is no AGW. What it really shows is how gullible people are when their minds are made up and then simply seek affirmation rather than to consider any new data scientifically. I am quite sure we will hear this hack job news piece quoted on Rush Radio and the like for some time.

 

[k0ua]

The dittohead cheering section here Top, Rain, Cat, Slash, Brin

Excuse me, you have hurt my feelings by not including me in the ditto-head cheering section. I have been a ditto-head for over 20 years, and I think I am due the respect and acknowledgement that my faithfulness implies.

James K0UA

 

[IslandTractor]

The dittohead cheering section here Top, Rain, Cat, Slash, Brin

Excuse me, you have hurt my feelings by not including me in the ditto-head cheering section. I have been a ditto-head for over 20 years, and I think I am due the respect and acknowledgement that my faithfulness implies.

James K0UA

As a fellow Kioti owner I was cutting you a break! Don't tell the others or they will accuse me of being biased.

 

[/pine]

This Daily Mail piece episode is a great example of why you should not get your science information from tabloids. Will the deniers be quoting the National Enquirer next?

I don't know who the journalist is but he is clearly a hack looking to grab a headline. And, SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE , the dittoheads bought it hook line and sinker.

Just look at the article in detail and it makes little sense. How could a big data set support the notion of AGW for several decades and then adding a few more years data suddenly destroys the theory? Ever heard of background noise or random variation? Ever thought of waiting for critical review and perspective before swallowing the bait? If Babe Ruth goes 0 for 5 in a given game after years of slugging, do you leap to the conclusion that he is washed up?

The dittohead cheering section here (Top, Rain, Cat, Slash, Brin ? Others (sorry Bota you don't qualify as you actual make well reasoned posts and we need a few good skeptics)) will undoubtedly continue to cite this tabloid piece for years as "proof" there is no AGW. What it really shows is how gullible people are when their minds are made up and then simply seek affirmation rather than to consider any new data scientifically. I am quite sure we will hear this hack job news piece quoted on Rush Radio and the like for some time.

Shows what you (just think) you know...:laughing:

This is nothing but rhetorical drivel that misguided liberals cite anytime someone from the right makes any type of conservative statement....you misguided buffoons cite FNC or any of the conservative pundits as the source...it's nothing but a security blanket for you misguided souls...too funny...

FYI...pinhead...I probably have not heard more than 10 minutes worth of Limbaugh's commentary in however long he has been on the air....I did not even know what a "dittohead" was until I recently Googled it...!

It's typical for pinheads and the misguided to stereotype anyone that hoses them with conservative logic or reasoning...they just can't seem to fathom it and the stereotyping is nothing but a defense mechanism (AKA security blanky) :laughing:

 

[houstonscott]

Just wondering. After the latest study taking all the science, the conclusion is no warming in last 16 years. No tread change in over 1000 years. Have any of you who believed in GW still believe. You claim to agree with the science if you do than you must consider the science. My question is has anyone's mind been changed and do you have guts to admit it here in public.

HS

 

[k0ua]

As a fellow Kioti owner I was cutting you a break! Don't tell the others or they will accuse me of being biased.

Well OK. I feel some better now...I just didn't understand why I didn't make the list, I guess I am good with the preferential treatment, We will try to keep that quiet!

James K0UA

 

[EE_Bota]

Hey, those water molecules have been around since the time of the dinosaurs so they are indeed "fossil water".

As I am sure you know, there is such a thing called fossil water. The Ogallala is considered fossil, and therefore considered non-renewable. I would submit that it is also sequestered potential water vapor, which was implied by my earlier post.

Fossil water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tcreeley]

New NCDC Map puts Months into Historical Perspective - Climate Change - AccuWeather.com



How Did September Temperatures Rank Globally?
October 08, 2012; 5:17 PM
September 2012 was unofficially the 5th warmest September in the satellite record, which began in 1979, according to Remote Sensing Systems (RSS).
RSS measures lower tropospheric temperatures using microwave sounding instrumentation on board satellites. Globally (70 degrees S. to 82.5 N.), September 2012 averaged 0.383 degrees C. or 0.689 degrees F. above normal.
This September 2012 temperature anomaly is the highest since September 2010 and likely reflects the loss of the cooling influence from the recent double-barrel La Nina as temperature anomalies have resumed the upward trend this year.
For the continental USA the temperature anomaly was +0.277 C or +0.499 F.
The northern Hemisphere was quite warm compared to normal, averaging +0.451 C or 0.812 F. for September 2012.
How Did September Temperatures Rank Globally? - Climate Change - AccuWeather.com

---these are good reading as well, 16 years ago it ended....that's a laugh!
--http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/climatechange/how-warm-was-the-northern-hemi/73849

--http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/climatechange/study-links-climate-science-de/74790
Study Links Climate Science Denial to acceptance of Conspiracy Theories
September 17, 2012

 

[IslandTractor]

As I am sure you know, there is such a thing called fossil water. The Ogallala is considered fossil, and therefore considered non-renewable. I would submit that it is also sequestered potential water vapor, which was implied by my earlier post.

Fossil water - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nope, didn't know that and it's news to me. Interesting.

 

[Tollster]

My question is has anyone's mind been changed and do you have guts to admit it here in public.

HS

My mind changed, as I could not believe it was any warmer...the winters seemed colder than ever, and the snowfall was all or nothing. I was thinking who are these people that believe the earth is actually warming?
Then I decided to return to college in 04 for some additional credits, I took some environmental classes, speech, English (sorry no spelling), and started to learn some on population growth, sustainability, economic growth of nations and the typical length of that growth depending on the natural resources available, as well as the declines, and much more. Having studied meteorology back in the early 80’s and always enjoyed it since I live in the country, I started to listen to some of the studies performed in the Arctic and Antarctic, as well as watching the weather throughout the US and in my own backyard.
I noticed less rain at regular intervals, instead it seemed to be all or nothing (I trout fish, so I always look for rain and stained water), then I noticed less snow and more ice storms. Also many of the storms where not localized fronts like they used to be, say the eastern seaboard, or mid atlantic region. Instead I noticed many more seemed to encompass more of the lower 48 states. The storms seemed to be of greater intensity reaching from the great lakes to the gulf. I also noticed more drought over the past decade or more, places like lake Powell and the exposure of glen canyon areas that have not been seen since the dam was placed in 1956, then I listened how Florida and Georgia where at ends over the savannah river water system, and who had the rights to the water (something unheard of here in the eastern part of the country). Sure there where other stories, and then I thought, maybe there is somthing very different about the weather.
Perhaps the population of the world does have an impact on the weather, the decline of the rainforest, the continued burning of fossil fuels, certainly if any one area is overrun with one single inhabitant there will be some sort of environmental change? (Go to a corporate hog farm if ya don’t think so)
It took me some time to go to the other side, I was a nay sayer as well, but as I opened my eyes to the changes over the course of 10 years or more I saw that indeed something has changed since I was a kid, and not for the better. So yes, I have changed to believe that global warming is happening, and those who have something to gain from greed will do anything to change your mind from not believing in it.


I recon this doesn't meet your critieria for fessing up?

 

[brin]

Tollster ~ Please consider the Earth has weather cycles, always has, no one is disputing there are changes in weather patterns, just that Humans are not responsible....The environmental Whackos would have us believe it is all our fault...I do not believe that...I am not that arrogant to think humans have the power to permanently injure the Earth...

Funny how article after article is presented that refutes Global warming and ever exposes lying scientists and it never changes the environmentalist's minds...they have their agenda and by golly they are sticking to it...I think they and the PITA folks would like Humans to be eradicated from the earth....I say ...it should start with them...they need to drink their Cool Aid and spare the rest of us.....and so it goes...

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Nope, didn't know that and it's news to me. Interesting.

Strange...I first heard the term from an Anthropology grad student at the University of New Mexico, about 1958 or 59. He was grinching on the farmers in arid regions of the U.S. drilling wells for irrigation and lowering the water table. He referred to it as "fossil water". I thought it was exclusively his term, invented by him because of his experience in archaeology and Physical Anthropology. I understood his meaning, but thought at the time it was more of an affectation on his part than proper use of the language (he was also a Masters level linguist, so I should have known better).

 

[EE_Bota]

I am a skeptic, but I don't think I am disproportionally skeptical. Science tells us all to be skeptical and we really ought to listen. AGW is a politically charged area, and a complex area, so there is no call to be less skeptical than normal.

Why marry a theory when science seems to prefer divorce. Telling us to be skeptical is the same as telling us to play the field, but don't fall in love...with a theory.

If someone says something about AGW, there's no need to act like they just insulted your wife unless...

 

[Tollster]

I do recognize the earth has cycles, I do not consider myself an extremist, **** I work in the nuclear industry, so I have to be skeptical, but also as an inspector, I have learned not to jump to conclusions, and instead put the pieces together from many different facets to draw my own conclusions, both of which takes time.
I have thought about the recession of the worlds glaciers, and how fast the speed has increased in the past 20 years, I have also seen the recession at two glaciers in Alaska during a family trip. The state park put signs out marking the ends over the past 50 years, a sign for every 10 years or so with maps shows that melting has increased.
I spend many days outside as a sportsman, ( I am laid off 3-6months a year) so I try to stay in tune with wildlife, the weather, and various birds I may see. I also listen to unusual events, and one on the evening news a few months ago seemed unusual, not that I follow it much.
But there are people that have interest in butterflies, and they have been documenting sightings of various species over the course of 20 or so years in Massachusetts. This year they have documented the highest number of southern species ever recorded in the state. Sure there could be an explanation for this, but, it may just be another coincidence.
For me, there just seems to be too many coincidences that only can mean one thing. A warming cycle.

I don;t belong to any environmental groups as I don't share all there view points, so why should I make contributions to them. I realizescientist have lied, but that goes for both sides. But then I also reason "who has the most to gain? As well as who has the most to loose? Its all about putting pieces together to draw your own conclusion. It may take years, but none the less, I wanted to share my own viewpoint and how I came to this reasoning with ya'll after reading houstons words. I don;t fall at the extreme end, I don't have any kids,so what happens here on earth when I am gone means little to me. Its just something I want to share with ya'll, and ya'll can draw up your own conclusions...just don't be in a haste to do so, as ya'll pointed out, ya have to be skepital of all the studies, that comes from both sides.

 

[brin]

I work in the nuclear industry

Tollster....I once had a friend that worked in the nuclear industry and I promise you he always seemed to have a glow or aura emitting from him....what causes that ? By the way the last article I saw said the Ice..or glaciers were actually growing in the South Pole...

 

[Tollster]

Have not had to brush my teeth in 20 years as the radiation kills the bacteria, turn off the lights and we are the life of the party with that cobalt aura!
I am tempted to listen to Bota. I have been under a lot of stress since early this year when my mother had a stroke. She pasted last month. During that time I was mad at the world, and feel less anxeity and angst now that she is gone, although there is a feeling of emptyness.
I am going to remove you from my ignore list and wish to say I am sorry for any harsh feelings I may have shared with you.
But stay off my arse about my spelling!

 

[tcreeley]

I arrived at global warming after looking for someway to explain things I was seeing- birds shifting their ranges north, snowless winters, fewer really cold temp days, longer growing seasons, later fall frost dates. (My impatience flowers were just frost killed on Friday- a month and 3 weeks later than it used to happen 25 years ago.) I just looked at them and where there was a bit of overhang from the apple limbs above- no frost damage. In fact- that side of the plants look fine and the flowers are still good! Besides- I just hear a peeper calling when I went out to do the horses. -been in the 60's all day.
All of our storms come up from the south here in Maine. They used to come down from Canada- huge difference in temperature.

No one tells an animal where to live- they just are found where they can live. Shifts in southern species north is a real indicator of warming.

 

[Tollster]

Perhaps there could be a shift in the magnetic poles taking place? That may explain why the local weather is not the same as it was growng up,as well as what Brin said if true about growing ice in the south pole?
I would not know if its a sudden event or long term, but recall reading it has happened before.

 

[tcreeley]

As to the power of man to alter an environment- check this out: