GFCI lifespan only 10 years?

[newbury]

I'm redoing some bathrooms which did not have GFCI and ran across this statement

All GFCI outlets have one little-known flaw: their circuitry eventually wears out, usually after about 10 years, at which point they no longer function properly.

on Testing GFCI Outlets | The Family Handyman and found the similar statement on other web sites.

This reads like an electrician employment act.

Since GFCI's have been required now for years a few questions:
Can anyone recommend "good" brands?

Is this an investment opportunity in GFCI stock?

 

[davesl708]

I think you will find most stuff is getting shorter life expectancy to prompt repeat purchases. The NEC is designed to promote work for electricians. That is why it is constantly adding new requirements. You would think after >100 years of electrical wiring in houses they would have figured it out by now. Wait till you look at the latest code requirements.

 

[Rock knocker]

The NEC is designed to promote work for electricians. That is why it is constantly adding new requirements.

If you look at the code writing committees, you would see that most of them have nothing to do with labor, and many are professors, inspectors or manufacturers. Your assertion is just plain silly

Making claims based on a poorly written blog from Family Handyman magazine?

 

[davesl708]

If you look at the code writing committees, you would see that most of them have nothing to do with labor, and many are professors, inspectors or manufacturers. Your assertion is just plain silly

Making claims based on a poorly written blog from Family Handyman magazine?

Having Master Electricians in the family and having worked in the field myself does not make my assertion silly. Phd's are the last to have real world experience. NEMA has a very large influence in code. Local codes are not written by Phd's. They are written by politicians who are sponsored by business owners who have influence with NEMA as well.

 

[GregbkH]

As a Master Electrician, I find your statement completely absurd. As for the 100 plus years of house wiring........ News flash: Technology changes daily.

 

[davesl708]

As a Master Electrician, I find your statement completely absurd. As for the 100 plus years of house wiring........ News flash: Technology changes daily.

So does the quality of the products. Designing products for short life expectancy means more revenue.

 

[Gary Fowler]

So does the quality of the products. Designing products for short life expectancy means more revenue.

That has nothing to do with NEC. Poorly/cheaply made products are a result of our obsession for paying less for products which results in lower quality thus shorter lifespan. Sadly, in today's circle of life, paying more still doesn't always guarantee a better or longer lasting product even though lots of folks think it does and will pay a bigger price for something with a big name brand at a specialty store that much of the time is made in the same factory as the discounted item in the big box stores.
As GregbkH states, technology changes daily that sometimes makes our lives safer (sometimes not so much) so building Code requirements change to include new technology. However many of the changes in the Code are done to correct a mistake that cost someone their life. The same thing happens with the OSHA safety regulations, a change is usually the result of some persons unfortunate death.

 

[KennyG]

There is always a cost/benefit evaluation in designing products. It makes no sense to add cost to something to make it last 100 years when most people will replace it at 10 years. Safety products bring in a new factor. What is the acceptable failure rate? GFCIs have mechanical components and some will fail earlier than others. Is the lifespan when you would expect 10% to fail, 5% to fail or 1% to fail. I don't know the answer but those of us that work with industrial quality components know how much more expensive it is to design for higher reliability. There is probably a limited residential market for $25 to $50 GFCIs

 

[Rock knocker]

As a Master Electrician, I find your statement completely absurd. As for the 100 plus years of house wiring........ News flash: Technology changes daily.

But, but, but.....Dave has a MASTER ELECTRICIAN IN THE FAMILY

 

[jrclark]

The code may have been written by highly educated people who have little or no relevant field experience, but it's also enforced by an army of inspection personnel who have much less intelligence and far fewer qualifications. Honestly, how many times have the words "man that inspector really knows his stuff" ever been uttered on a job site.

All kidding aside, if you confirm the correct load/line wiring and test the GFCI outlets to make sure they work then why replace them?

 

[flusher]

As GregbkH states, technology changes daily that sometimes makes our lives safer (sometimes not so much) so building Code requirements change to include new technology. However many of the changes in the Code are done to correct a mistake that cost someone their life. The same thing happens with the OSHA safety regulations, a change is usually the result of some persons unfortunate death.

In aerospace engineering where I worked for 32 years, this is called tombstone engineering.

 

[davepg1]

Maybe I'm a bit jaded over the years, but I view the GFCI changeout issue the same as kids car seats. I got "educated" this weekend by my daughter-in-law that my grandchild's car seat was going to expire in 2 months and I had better buy a new one! Is this stuff for real? How does a car seat expire? Or why does a refrigerator now only have a live expectancy of less than 12 years?

 

[Soundguy]

Planned obselescence...

why sell one when you can sell 3 over time.

As for companies driving code requirements.. it happenens everywhere.

Any anyone who doesn't think there is a financial angle to the argument is lieing or just doesn't want to know....

 

[ultrarunner]

I have a hospital full of Hubbel Hospital Spec GFCI dating from 1995 and not once has a single one failed testing.

Also have some Hubbel non Hospital Spec and no problems either.

Wish I could say the same for the contractor packs I bought at Home Depot 15 years ago... don't know the number but a lot have failed... most stop by not being able to reset and a few will not trip.

My impression is you get what you pay for.

 

[Paddy]

Odd how some things don't last as long as they used to, but others last way longer. For example, when I was a kid, getting 125k miles on a car was good. By then serious rust and the rings were toast. Now days, over 200k miles is expected.

As far as a GFCI, I would think it's more of a number of trips that determines end of life. Or heavy loads. I had GFCI's in a seldom used bath for 20 years. I tried using one in a home made extension cord splitter for a safer work site. Burned up in a week!

I also have been chairmen for a NEMA standards committee, all manufactures. NEMA = National Electrcal Manufactures ***. All members are representing manufactures. We write the standards because we know the products better than most anyone. We lso know the weaknesses and limitations of a product. This is often the basis for Type, Sample and Routine testing. Recently the NEC contacted NEMA to "push" application limits. We refused because we know the limits.

So when I see packages stating "life expectancy", I take it with a grain of salt. Like change your smoke detector batteries twice a year even though they have a 5 year shelf life!

A bigger concern of mine is old receptacles a switches. You know the receptacles where the male plug just goes in with hardly a push, or worse, falls out! Switches buzzing. Only device to protect are arc-fault breakers

 

[teejk]

I've had some "fail" in less that 4 years (good pricey ones at that). Never know why, they just "fail" (and I think the newer ones are engineered to fail in the "dead" position...you don't lose the GFCI protection, you lose it all). I personally don't agree with much of the current code ("arc-fault"??? "tamper resistant"??? even GFCI in many areas)...but that's the way things are. I keep a stock of stuff for replacements...

 

[hr3]

If the OP thinks that 10 years is bad wait till he buys the new outlets. UL has changed how they work now they are self testing. They are self testing and like anything new won't last a year till they break. Like the first AFI breakers until they got to the third version they were junk.
I've tried my GFI tester in the new gfi's and it won't trip I'm told they don't make a tester yet. " The inspectors are going to love it.."

New Standard for GFCI | UL 943 GFCI Standard | by Legrand

 

[davesl708]

The more technology added the more prone to failure. The sad part is someone's home life support may depend on this new stuff to work and it fails and leaves them in a bad state. The old outlets lasted for decades. Now a unknown life span will have to be relied on.

 

[teejk]

If the OP thinks that 10 years is bad wait till he buys the new outlets. UL has changed how they work now they are self testing. They are self testing and like anything new won't last a year till they break. Like the first AFI breakers until they got to the third version they were junk.
I've tried my GFI tester in the new gfi's and it won't trip I'm told they don't make a tester yet. " The inspectors are going to love it.."

New Standard for GFCI | UL 943 GFCI Standard | by Legrand

Punish the masses for the sins of a few (kinda like gun control ain't it)? My MIL bought an 80's house recently...the outlets/switches "bothered me" (painted over, etc.). When I built this house I used quality stuff (Pass & Seymour). Tried to find them again and the prices had tripled in just a few years. You can't buy an outlet now without "tamper resistant". Arc fault is a joke. GFCI...getting worse. I have to wonder how many lives we save (forget about Darwin) and at what cost.

 

[sld]

In aerospace engineering where I worked for 32 years, this is called tombstone engineering.

Me too. Every plane crash usually results in updated or new regulations. Lessons learned the hard way.