Gear or Chain Driven

[1401DMAN]

First I want to start of by saying that this is by far the friendliest most helpful forum I have ever seen...that said I need some help. I'm in the market for either a two or three point tiller for my 1401D. I really know nothing about the subject and I have a few questions. My tractor is already set up for three point and still has the bracket for a two point tiller so I can run either setup. My questions are as follows:

1) Is there and advantage to a three point tiller over a two point tiller or vice versa?

2) Which is better/more reliable chain or gear driven?

Thank you in advance!

 

[larso1]

Welcome! My understanding is that gear driven are much more heavy duty, and heavy. Maybe too heavy for your tractor. And you probably won't find a 2-pt model in gear drive. I have a 2-pt Yanmar RS1202 tiller, and I fabricated a 2-pt to 3-pt triangle adapter fixture to use it on my 3-pt Iseki. It's a chain driven 48-in. model, was inexpensive (used of course), and does a great job. I would go with the much more common 3-pt chain drive unit since you're already set up for it. If you ever want to sell the tiller separately, you'll probably find a buyer much easier. The 2-pt tiller will pivot up and down from one point and will set close to your tractor, while the 3-pt will move in a larger arc and will tend to be set further behind the tractor. Don't know if there are any other advantages between the two, other than the 2-pt type should be less expensive. Maybe somebody else can add to it.

Bill

 

[HoyeTractor]

I have always hated the 2pt tillers. The main reason is that they are really short coupled. There is just not much room to work or see what you are doing when you are trying to attach it. Plus, the 2pt tillers take a very special driveshaft with special bearings (because it is so short) that are very hard to find. The 2pt tillers do have the advantage that they are tucked up right behind the rear wheels if storage or turning space is a consideration.

Personally, I'd get a 3pt tiller with a longer, standard, drive shaft. You will have room to work, see what you are doing, and it will be easy to replace driveshaft bearings if needed.

Never had any trouble with gear or chain drive as long as you keep both lubricated.

Aaron
Hoye Tractor Parts
Contact Us
(940)592-0181

 

[Mickey_Fx]

I also prefer the 3pt design. While my tiller was a 3pt design it didn't match cat I specs. I did make changes so the mounting is to cat I dims.

As for chain Vs gears and theoretically speaking, not a lot of difference and potentially chain is better due to higher efficiency. Gears and chain are close in efficiency but with gears, with every gear pair you will take a hit. Only one hit for chain. Either approach can be implemented decently or badly. More important to be concerned on how reliable the specific model tiller you are considering is.

 

[California]

1401Dman there are some theoretical advantages to either type but back in the practical world......

Yanmar sold factory tillers with a great many of their tractors in Japan. Many of these original tillers stayed with the tractors when the used tractors were brought over here.

Therefor, many US importers have a pile of used tillers out behind the shop that their tractor customers didn't want.

It seems to me this is the first place to look for a reasonably priced tiller that perfectly matches your tractor.

And a comment on what to look for: Some of the Yanmar 3-point tillers have a special top link. The link coming from the tiller is about half the length of an ordinary top link. This short link meets a 'bridge' pinned on the back of the tractor at the ordinary 3-point upper link attachment point.

This geometry lifts the tiller without jamming it into the tires - which is what happens if you try to use an ordinary top link.

Be sure to get the special upper link components and the original driveshaft along with any used tiller. Everything will fit together easily just like Yanmar intended. This will avoid a lot of needless and expensive complexity later.

 

[MJPetersen]

I have a 2 point with my 1510d and I like it alot--I do not like having to take off all the 3 point stuff to hook it up though. So if you want to till everything up and then switch to a harrow to level it all out it is a bother. I have hits some pretty terrible hidden things and have had NO problems with the chain Yanmar tiller. Hidden things that are hard enough to just about pitch you out of the seat--like concrete slabs and chunks, tree roots, Huge rocks etc.

Mike

 

[flusher]

First I want to start of by saying that this is by far the friendliest most helpful forum I have ever seen...that said I need some help. I'm in the market for either a two or three point tiller for my 1401D. I really know nothing about the subject and I have a few questions. My tractor is already set up for three point and still has the bracket for a two point tiller so I can run either setup. My questions are as follows:

1) Is there and advantage to a three point tiller over a two point tiller or vice versa?

2) Which is better/more reliable chain or gear driven?

Thank you in advance!

When I had my 2005 Kubota B7510HST, I bought a used 3pt Yanmar RS1200 tiller (48 inch wide, $300 at my local grey market tractor guy). Chain driven.

Only problem I had was fitting it on the 3pt hitch. I couldn't find any shear pins on the tiller, so I used a slip clutch. To fit that slip clutch to the tiller, I had to use a 6" long pto extension so the clutch wouldn't rub on the tiller's sheet metal. With those two parts in the line, the pto shaft was too long. I cut the shaft down, but still had a fit problem. So I replaced the 26" long lower arms on the Kubota with the 35" arms from my Massey Ferguson 135 to get the tiller to fit.





No problem doing the landscaping at my new house and rototilling the veg garden.

 

[careyo63]

Here is a RS1400 gear driven behind a Yanmar 2000.I believe that I would have Chain stretch and Sprocket wear and with gear more of a heavy duty setup.Also I think this a pic. of the top link California was referring to.It is really user friendly when hooking up nothing to it.

 

[California]

That's it! The tiller isn't complete without that top link assembly, or the driveshaft. Thanks Carey! (I have a RS1400 tiller too - photo).

Everybody, watch out for ebay or roadside sellers who sell Japanese tillers without that top link.

Absent these components, all you've found is an incomplete project. The tiller may clear the tires on a larger tractor that has longer lift arms, but it can't be used on the intended size Japanese tractor without a lot of modification. People have posted here that they welded on new lift pins a few inches forward of the original ones, or like Flusher, put longer arms on the tractor to get the tiller away from the tires. It's easier if you set it up like Yanmar (or Mitsubishi etc) intended in the first place.

 

[1401DMAN]

Thanks for all the info guys!

 

[1401DMAN]

Do I need any type of clutch mechanism to run a tiller? The area I need to till is mostly decent topsoil with a little red clay mixed in. There is a possibility of tree roots on the outer portion but the possibility of rocks is slim. Thanks again!

 

[larso1]

Do I need any type of clutch mechanism to run a tiller? The area I need to till is mostly decent topsoil with a little red clay mixed in. There is a possibility of tree roots on the outer portion but the possibility of rocks is slim. Thanks again!

If there is room to fit one in the drive line, that's the way to go. Even a shear pin is better than nothing. That said, I have none in my driveline. I do have a PTO shaft with a slip clutch but it's just too long, it has the ratchet style clutch. The blade part of the tines on a Japanese tiller (Yanmar, Iseki, Mitsu, etc.) are curved backward and tend to ride up on and over an obstruction, so it's not so critical with these. A heavier North American style tiller has the L-shaped tine blades and they are not very forgiving....best to fit a slip clutch in with those.

 

[oldgrayfellow]

Thanks California and Carey for the info & photo of the tiller top bracket.

I'm looking at getting an RS 1200 tiller from an importer, and they said they would include a drive shaft and tiller top bracket with it.

They were not so familiar with the 186D (that i have) but certainly are familiar with the 1510.

So, does anyone know if the specific PTO shaft and tiller top link for mounting the RS 1200 on a YM1510 would also fit correctly for mounting the tiller on a 186D?
(If so, it will be very easy for the importer to be sure he's including the right parts with the tiller).

Thanks loads.

That's it! The tiller isn't complete without that top link assembly, or the driveshaft. Thanks Carey! (I have a RS1400 tiller too - photo).

Everybody, watch out for ebay or roadside sellers who sell Japanese tillers without that top link.

Absent these components, all you've found is an incomplete project. The tiller may clear the tires on a larger tractor that has longer lift arms, but it can't be used on the intended size Japanese tractor without a lot of modification. People have posted here that they welded on new lift pins a few inches forward of the original ones, or like Flusher, put longer arms on the tractor to get the tiller away from the tires. It's easier if you set it up like Yanmar (or Mitsubishi etc) intended in the first place.

 

[normde2001]

If it's the correct shaft and bracket for the tiller it should be good to go on any cat 1 tractor. The hookup has to match the implement, not the tractor.

 

[YanmarFever]

I have over 100 of those pesky tiller bkts thrown on 3 pallets if anyone needs one, or two or ....:confused2:
They mostly fit ym 1610s 1710s 1810s 2010 2310s and all the f - fx s.

 

[oldgrayfellow]

If it's the correct shaft and bracket for the tiller it should be good to go on any cat 1 tractor. The hookup has to match the implement, not the tractor.

Thanks, that makes sense.

I'm just asking in case the tiller were to come separately..

If it comes already mounted on a tractor, no problem. But otherwise he may have to know which kind of bracket (or shaft as well) to pick.

 

[California]

I'm 99% sure the tiller intended for YM1510 fits perfectly on YM186.

YM186 is a little beefier. The pins that hold the 3-point arms are part of a bolted-on assembly - see my photo below. I've seen pictures of YM1510 that show the hinge pins for its 3-point arms are screwed directly into the sides of the transmission.

The upper link bracket is bolted to both the back and to the top of the transmission housing. I don't know if YM1510 uses this same bracket.

Both tractors are built to the universal Cat 1 standard so the 1510's tiller should fit your YM186 fine.

You might sketch your top bracket, with measurements, and take that along to be sure the dealer's top link matches to it. I can't think of anything else that might be a problem.

Photo: YM186D 3-point details. Can someone with a YM1510 describe any difference they see?

 

[California]

Ernie hold on to those special tiller top links! (Like in Carey's post above).

Every time some new tiller owner comes on here and says 'my Yanmar tiller hits my tires!"....... There's another sale!

Most Craigslist tillers are missing the special top link. And it's been a couple of years, but there was an ebay seller in Southern California who never had the link for the tillers he put on ebay. I asked him about several of his listings and it seemed he didn't care. He's out of business now.

 

[mus302]

Photo: YM186D 3-point details. Can someone with a YM1510 describe any difference they see?

Here is a picture of the back of a 1510.

 

[YanmarFever]

Ernie hold on to those special tiller top links! (Like in Carey's post above).

Every time some new tiller owner comes on here and says 'my Yanmar tiller hits my tires!"....... There's another sale!

Most Craigslist tillers are missing the special top link. And it's been a couple of years, but there was an ebay seller in Southern California who never had the link for the tillers he put on ebay. I asked him about several of his listings and it seemed he didn't care. He's out of business now.

I also have some 1510 & 1401 tiller 2 point mount bkts, that im about ready to scrap out + about 30 or so miss matched pto shafts, most of them are the short ones.
A guy can only keep this stuff around so long, before his place starts to look like a junk pile

Not only that, I dont even sell 1510s 1401s or any small tractors anymore, Its been about 4 years now since I gave up on the widow makers !
Im more into the mid size YM and F FX yanmars ....

I had 1510 go over on me 4 yrs ago and I finally said ... no more....