Gasohol and Small Engines

[Sodo]

That's why I did not use the T-word.

One has to gather data from multiple sources, evaluate the credibility of these sources,
then try to filter it all to glean the truth. That is harder than just absorbing the "truth"
as told to us in an authoritative manner. This applies to info from the internet, books,
TV, your BIL, and others. Sometimes, you can even run your own tests and get
your own personal experience.

Yeah I did that in 2010 (my own tests). Started getting scared about what would happen if all my engines started crapping out due to fuel problems. I'd never get ANYTHING done, only fix engines. So started to plan a regiment to use Sta-Bil ® in all my engines. Then stepped back and realized I wasn't actually HAVING trouble. Looking in carburetors, realizing they hadn't been opened in YEARS and everything's pretty normal. And I have about 50 engines under my watch so certainly a usable sample. Basically it was too many engines to start onto the Sta-Bil ® plan so I scrapped the plan before getting started and glad I did.

I just opened an ATV carburetor which has never been drained, never had Sta-Bil ®, always had E10 Ethanol, and it was really OK. It hadn't been opened in 13 years. The ATV does run better "cleaned" after 13 years. But I think most carburetors require a little attention every few years, always have, always will. I think draining them is a good idea if you can remember it and manage it. But drained too long, the gaskets might dry out.

I do NOT prefer Ethanol but I do like that its easier on my mind discovering that it's effect on my small engines is insignificant. I did find that on 90deg summer days the Ethanol boiled and made my chainsaw run like crap, that was a PITA. It's OK when it's cooler though. I agree small engines seem to run better on pure-gas. I worry more what's happening to my country with such media campaigns riling people up. The poor decisions made under duress will be a bigger detriment, with long term problems.

 

[Sodo]

Read this from the Boat Owners Association of the United States.....

Three Ethanol Myths Clarified - BoatUS Magazine

This was a VERY interesting article.

He does recommend using a fuel stabilizer if fuel is stored. And recommends keeping tanks 95% full to minimize moisture-laden air in a tank, which amounts to recommending to store fuel.

One take-away was he says upon changing an engine over from E0 to E10, the ethanol being a different solvent can dissolve stuff in the tank, and that stuff ends up in the carburetor. Thus the changeover from E0 to E10 can be problematic, and problems will reduce as the stuff is washed out of your tank.

He said there are 108 different compounds that can be in fuel, and those compounds can react different ways with Ethanol. Depending on what brands of fuel you used in the past, how long it was stored, the changeover can result in goo in your system. He says to try different brands of fuel.

He said Ethanol can be considered superior in one way - that it removes small amounts of water from the fuel, passing it harmlessly thru the engine.

Good stuff (I think / hope).

I suspect the reason I'm not having trouble is because "changeover" was done 15-20 years ago. Probably most folks are long past changeover but it's just become popular subject now due to media campaigns, and fear/doubtmongering programs to rile people up for elections. It almost suggests that switching between E0 and E10, and using different brands etc might increase fuel problems. I have not paid attn to the brand of fuel I buy but tend towards Shell & Chevron, and no names Costco & Safeway. Rarely fill gas cans at no-name stations but sometimes use it in my truck.

 

[ultrarunner]

This was a VERY interesting article.

He does recommend using a fuel stabilizer if fuel is stored. And recommends keeping tanks 95% full to minimize moisture-laden air in a tank, which amounts to recommending to store fuel.

One take-away was he says upon changing an engine over from E0 to E10, the ethanol being a different solvent can dissolve stuff in the tank, and that stuff ends up in the carburetor. Thus the changeover from E0 to E10 can be problematic, and problems will reduce as the stuff is washed out of your tank.

This had been the plague for the old car hobby... no telling what residue is in the tank and then it all gets cut loose.

My oldest car is a 1905 and is 110 years old... never had a problem with the Unocal regular... put in E10 and problems started... same with the Model T's, Model A's, even my 61 Corvette.

 

[Copperhead]

Well, back to the small engine aspect of this discussion. A product that might be good to use for small engines that have to eat E10 because E0 is not readily available is the Amsoil Quickshot product. I use it even for E0 gas for some of the other issues they say it takes care of, but they tout it as handling E10 fuel pretty well to eliminate many problems for small engines.

Here is the data sheet on it.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2761.pdf

 

[prs]

Most of the alcohol/water related problems occur during storage when residual fuel is working on rubber parts and corroding the carbs. If using E-10 add a little Seafoam to that last tank of working fuel and run it dry, then run it a little more on the expensive bottled fuel mix if sober fuel is not otherwise available. Run that dry too and then store. Cross your fingers, count your lucky stars, and toss some salt over your shoulder too. ;-)

prs

 

[Sodo]

All sounds like work. This plan requires that you drain, and what to drain it to? It works for an item that is already near empty. And small tanks. How do you manage items that have a lot of gas in the tank? Pump it out and burn it in your car I suppose. That can be work. Plus, tanks can have sediment in them, that never leaves the tank never causes problems, just sits there. But could come out with the gas if you pump it out. Then if you want to refill it to 95% full, you may need to drive it / tow it etc to a fuel station. RVs, boats, ATV, motorcycles.

Sounds easy for just a few engines though. Too much work for my fleet of spark plugs. I'm on the 'do little or nothing' plan. I have enough engines to know, statistically, that the do nothing plan has worthwhile efficiencies.

I drain carbs if I KNOW it won't be used for a few months, if I remember, if I have the time, and if draining is easy. I drain the minibikes. I worry about draining carbs that will sit for years, for those should I fill them with stabilized gas or gasohol? Haven't been doing that, but do you treat the whole tank?

I have too many engines. From this I gain a perspective of how genuine the "E10 problem" is. If you have a few engines, with small tanks, its easy to do the prevention measures - to get down towards "zero problems". I'm near 'zero problems" without all that work.

 

[davesl708]

All sounds like work. This plan requires that you drain, and what to drain it to? It works for an item that is already near empty. And small tanks. How do you manage items that have a lot of gas in the tank? Pump it out and burn it in your car I suppose. That can be work. Plus, tanks can have sediment in them, that never leaves the tank never causes problems, just sits there. But could come out with the gas if you pump it out. Then if you want to refill it to 95% full, you may need to drive it / tow it etc to a fuel station. RVs, boats, ATV, motorcycles.

Sounds easy for just a few engines though. Too much work for my fleet of spark plugs. I'm on the 'do little or nothing' plan. I have enough engines to know, statistically, that the do nothing plan has worthwhile efficiencies.

I drain carbs if I KNOW it won't be used for a few months, if I remember, if I have the time, and if draining is easy. I drain the minibikes. I worry about draining carbs that will sit for years, for those should I fill them with stabilized gas or gasohol? Haven't been doing that, but do you treat the whole tank?

I have too many engines. From this I gain a perspective of how genuine the "E10 problem" is. If you have a few engines, with small tanks, its easy to do the prevention measures - to get down towards "zero problems". I'm near 'zero problems" without all that work.

Agreed. Not worth the hassle of messing with ethanol. The gov. warns against its use in small engines, boat and airplanes. The manufacturers warn against its use. Good enough reason to not use it. The puregas in my generator is three years old now and I test run it twice per year with no issues. I do add StaBil but nothing else being done.

 

[dfkrug]

What kind of crazy talk is that ?

Actually applying the Scientific Method ? Who knows what that might lead to !

Rgds, D.

Call me crazy, but I did the ethanol test to some premium gas a few years ago, and
posted the results somewhere on TBN. It is easy to do. I may still do it for the
race gas that Conoco sells. Alcohols have been used as octane-boosters, so it
would not surprise me if it was not eth-free.

It is really too much bother to separate the alcohol, however, and I do not have
a big problem with the E10 we have here, as long as I don't let my many
engines sit a long time without running them.

I am switching to a full synthetic pre-mix oil rated to 100:1. It really costs no more
than the semi-synth oils commonly available. Amsoil Sabre Pro is what I will start using
at 50:1. Picked up a quart for $10 at the car show. JASO-FD/API-TC

 

[3930dave]

Call me crazy, but I did the ethanol test to some premium gas a few years ago, and
posted the results somewhere on TBN. It is easy to do. I may still do it for the
race gas that Conoco sells. Alcohols have been used as octane-boosters, so it
would not surprise me if it was not eth-free.

It is really too much bother to separate the alcohol, however, and I do not have
a big problem with the E10 we have here, as long as I don't let my many
engines sit a long time without running them.

I am switching to a full synthetic pre-mix oil rated to 100:1. It really costs no more
than the semi-synth oils commonly available. Amsoil Sabre Pro is what I will start using
at 50:1. Picked up a quart for $10 at the car show. JASO-FD/API-TC

That Sabre should serve you well.

Rgds, D.