Gasohol and Small Engines

[davesl708]

Thats funny, in the old days we used to change fuel pumps all the time. If the OEM pump failed at 50, 80,000 it was no surprise. Some people kept spares. If an aftermarket pump failed at 25k, then everyone said "you get what you pay for; go to the dealer for that item". Now if a pump fails - it was the ethanol. Carburetors had to be cleaned from time to time, always have, always will. Now it's the ethanol. Hogwash. Its short memories and effective petrol .vs. bio marketing. Petrol industry wants that 10% back.

I doubt ethanol effects the fuel pump on vehicles built since the late seventies. Older pumps could be corroded and rusted from the effects of ethanol and the water it attracts. But there is a reason the government states not to use it in small engines, boat, ATV's, airplanes etc.

I still don't understand the push for more ethanol. It reduces fuel efficiency so you have to burn more. It has a very short shelf life before it breaks down.
The cost of producing it creates more air pollution than burning pure gas. It cost so much to produce the taxpayers are subsidizing the producers at $.46 per gallon to keep gas prices from having to reflect the actual cost. It cost more for the refineries to add it to the fuel than they save by the increase in volume produced.
There are just no positives for using ethanol.
Ethanol was used by farmers and rural communities up till the 1940's. They stopped when gas was available because it was better preforming.
Due to using corn to produce ethanol more land is being farmed to produce corn for fuel and less for food. Food prices go up.

Ethanol is simply not making things better. It needs to go away.

 

[Sodo]

I agree 100%

There are a couple more considerations:

I think there should always be a challenge to any monopoly otherwise the consumer gets screwed. Ethanol is a challenge. Electricity is a challenge. Ethanol bugs me that our nations crop lands should not be depleted for fuel, it's almost as bad as pollution. Someday people will look back and say, boy that was stupid.

The other ting that bugs me is how easily marketing can sway people to support one industry over another, for no greater good than that industry's profit. We should try other things, always. Ethanol was worth trying, but I think, not worth keeping. Pollution is worth reducing, but I'm not convinced ethanol actually reduces air pollution and I know it depletes our farmlands, and increases food prices.

 

[3930dave]

https://www.boschautoparts.com/documents/101512/0/0/dab7fa38-be9c-4bcc-a240-2b97685b777a

Bosch's take on E15.

Other than the right people continuing to make big $, very few other people have much use for ethanol.

Rgds, D.

 

[Sodo]

Other than the right people continuing to make big $, very few other people have much use for ethanol.

Thank a lobbyist. Or buy a different one. Lobbyists got'er done!

 

[3930dave]

Thank a lobbyist. Or buy a different one. Lobbyists got'er done!

Seems worthy of a new word...... How about Dollarocracy ?

Rgds, D.

 

[Copperhead]

I agree 100%

There are a couple more considerations:

I think there should always be a challenge to any monopoly otherwise the consumer gets screwed. Ethanol is a challenge. Electricity is a challenge. Ethanol bugs me that our nations crop lands should not be depleted for fuel, it's almost as bad as pollution. Someday people will look back and say, boy that was stupid.

The other ting that bugs me is how easily marketing can sway people to support one industry over another, for no greater good than that industry's profit. We should try other things, always. Ethanol was worth trying, but I think, not worth keeping. Pollution is worth reducing, but I'm not convinced ethanol actually reduces air pollution and I know it depletes our farmlands, and increases food prices.

Curious minds want to know..... how does ethanol increase food prices? I looked at the corn market today.....closed at $3.82 a bushel. Now if we look at the corn price in 1995, for October it was between $3 and $3.25 a bushel. Now if we adjust that 1995 price for inflation, the price today should be.....$5.08 a bushel. So from that little tidbit of information, I am confused on how corn price at the current $3.82 is an increased food price. Please explain your rationale for your comment. From what I see, there is no shortage of corn for anyone, anytime, anywhere, or the market price would reflect that shortage. If it weren't for ethanol production, the corn market would take a nose dive and we would have the farm crisis all over again.

And as much as the livestock folks would like to play the cost of feed game to rig the system and the general public perception that grain prices are the cause of high meat prices, again, they are paying less for corn, on an inflation adjusted basis, than they did 20 years ago. Yeah, I am all in tears over their plight.

As for the other comment that the nations croplands depleted for fuel, what then would you grow on them that you could make a profit at? What are the three most in demand crops worldwide that we grow to meet that demand? And cropland depleted? How is it that the same ground that would only kick out about 100 bushel per acre 20 years ago, is now producing over 200 bushel per acre now? How is it that this "depleted" farm ground is able to support higher and higher yields per acre year over year? One thing about the armchair farmers who write in newspapers and business rags fail to take into account, it does not take more and more land to grow an abundant corn crop when the same farmland that was used before is generating 2 and 3 fold the amount of corn from the same amount of acres as just 20 years ago.

The so-called "push for more ethanol" is the producers response to the DECREASE in the level of ethanol in the renewable fuel standards. The push is not for more ethanol so much as it is trying to keep the level at what it has been. The RFS standard was reduced by 1.4 billion gallons from the 14.4 billion gallons that were mandated by statute. That is a significant reduction of 10%. That is what all the hue and cry is about.

 

[cqaigy2]

I have a couple of 20 plus year old small engines. One a stihl and a "weed eater". I don't use the "weed eater" anymore but the stihl is still (see what i did there?) cutting wood. It's been using ethanol gas for years. I've only replaced spark plugs, sprockets, chains and bars.

 

[Sodo]

Curious minds want to know..... how does ethanol increase food prices?

I suppose because fuel producers, opening a new market for corn, bid up the price of corn. They are federally mandated to purchase corn, so sellers can hold out a bit and ask more. Then consumers have to pay more, and feedlots pay more too, and the price of food rises (etc). I come from a farming family. I think farmers are getting ripped off by the commodities brokers, who will certainly cover their butts blame the foolish government. Gubmint is a good target to divert the attention to, cuz it's actually TRUE. True because many politicians are profiting from their ability to manipulate commodities from within the gubmint, while buying media manipulation to divert it to other causes.

Back to the topic of Ethanol, I have a 13 year old Yamaha ATV thats been running a little bit rough. It has always had Ethanol gas in it. I have never even drained the carb. It sits in an unheated barn, un-used all winter (months).

I cleaned the carb last week. Carb's never been disassembled in 13 years. There was some funk in the bottom of the bowl. The bowl drain was almost impossible to get unstuck, but I got it! Took out all the jets and sprayed each thru with carb cleaner. I put it all back together and it runs GREAT (much less choke!), wish I did this years ago. This is a normal procedure, just like the old days, before ethanol (for those who remember). I agree it becomes more important knowing Ethanol can absorb water.

 

[davesl708]

Curious minds want to know..... how does ethanol increase food prices? I looked at the corn market today.....closed at $3.82 a bushel. Now if we look at the corn price in 1995, for October it was between $3 and $3.25 a bushel. Now if we adjust that 1995 price for inflation, the price today should be.....$5.08 a bushel. So from that little tidbit of information, I am confused on how corn price at the current $3.82 is an increased food price. Please explain your rationale for your comment. From what I see, there is no shortage of corn for anyone, anytime, anywhere, or the market price would reflect that shortage. If it weren't for ethanol production, the corn market would take a nose dive and we would have the farm crisis all over again.

And as much as the livestock folks would like to play the cost of feed game to rig the system and the general public perception that grain prices are the cause of high meat prices, again, they are paying less for corn, on an inflation adjusted basis, than they did 20 years ago. Yeah, I am all in tears over their plight.

As for the other comment that the nations croplands depleted for fuel, what then would you grow on them that you could make a profit at? What are the three most in demand crops worldwide that we grow to meet that demand? And cropland depleted? How is it that the same ground that would only kick out about 100 bushel per acre 20 years ago, is now producing over 200 bushel per acre now? How is it that this "depleted" farm ground is able to support higher and higher yields per acre year over year? One thing about the armchair farmers who write in newspapers and business rags fail to take into account, it does not take more and more land to grow an abundant corn crop when the same farmland that was used before is generating 2 and 3 fold the amount of corn from the same amount of acres as just 20 years ago.

The so-called "push for more ethanol" is the producers response to the DECREASE in the level of ethanol in the renewable fuel standards. The push is not for more ethanol so much as it is trying to keep the level at what it has been. The RFS standard was reduced by 1.4 billion gallons from the 14.4 billion gallons that were mandated by statute. That is a significant reduction of 10%. That is what all the hue and cry is about.

There is a finite amount of tillable soil in the USA. The amount shrinks every year due to urban sprawl. With less land and more land growing corn for ethanol there is less land for wheat and other grain crops. Supply goes down prices go up. Simple economics. Also, with the reduction in fuel cost, cost to produce crops goes down. That also helps reduce the cost of corn production. Prices then go lower on corn. You still have a reduction in other food crops. Prices stay higher.

 

[Copperhead]

Wheat price close Friday... $5.09. Price October 1995... $4.80 Inflation adjust price would be today.... $7.35

Oats price close Friday... $2.27. Price October 1995... $1.90. Inflation adjust price would be today... $2.97

Corn and soybeans already discussed. What exactly would you like to see grown in place of corn that folks actually want and are willing to pay for. When it comes to the big kahunas.... corn, soybeans, wheat, and oats, there really doesn't seem to be all that much demand for any of them that they are bringing, on an inflation adjusted value, a lower price than 20 years ago. All of them. So none of them are experiencing any kind of shortage that would cause prices to rise. The opposite is occurring, all grain prices are lower in cost than in 1995, across the board.

It all comes down to this, this almost religious bias against ethanol is skewing some folk's basic brainwave activity to see the facts for what they are. I really could care less if anyone wants to use ethanol or not. I have nothing to gain either way. But demonizing something using arguments that fall flat on their face in front of anyone who wants to actually look at the markets is pretty telling. Man, that is bias on steroids.

One would think that before entering a debate on something, they might actually want to take the time to learn about it. Especially on a tractor related forum! I am depressed. I would have expected more of folks here. My bad. But it does evidence that the Alinski tactics are working on the public.