Front end loader will not lift tires off the ground

[Boomertc45]

I just purchased a 2003 tc45d and when I bring the front end loader all the way down it will not lift the tires up. Is this Normal? Do I have a hydraulic problem? Can anyone shed some light on this? Btw the FEL is a 16la and also has a 930gh backhoe installed in rear.

 

[shortthrow50]

yeah its normal if the bucket isnt tilted forward in the dumping position a little. If you can still see shiny chrome in the lift cylinder area and it wont collapse all the way, then yeah there is deffinatley a problem. Lifting the front end of a tractor with the bucket should be as easy as sticking your index finger and pinky into a jar of vaseline

 

[crash325]

I just purchased a 2003 tc45d and when I bring the front end loader all the way down it will not lift the tires up. Is this Normal? Do I have a hydraulic problem? Can anyone shed some light on this? Btw the FEL is a 16la and also has a 930gh backhoe installed in rear.

Rotate bucket all the way to the dump position. In that position it should lift the front wheels clear of the ground. If it does not then you have a problem.

When using the back hoe the FEL is used to help hold the tractor in place.

I have virtually the same set up as you have.

 

[J_J]

If you do as stated above and you can not lift, then install a hyd gage and check some hyd pressures.

 

[Jim Miller]

Lower the FEL until the bucket is flat on the ground. Slowly begin curling the bucket to the dump position and the front tires should come off the ground. If that doesn't happen, you've got a hydro problem.

 

[Boomertc45]

Thanks for the feedback. I tried everything still not going up. Just went to the dealer and bought hydraulic fluid and 2 different hydraulic filters gonna start there and see what happens. I don't have gauges to check the pressure, but definatley some kind of issue here. Digging with the backhoe also seems like it's lacking power for heavy work. Any more feedback greatly appreciated. I don't wanna bring to dealer and be stuck with a huge bill.

 

[crash325]

Thanks for the feedback. I tried everything still not going up. Just went to the dealer and bought hydraulic fluid and 2 different hydraulic filters gonna start there and see what happens. I don't have gauges to check the pressure, but definatley some kind of issue here. Digging with the backhoe also seems like it's lacking power for heavy work. Any more feedback greatly appreciated. I don't wanna bring to dealer and be stuck with a huge bill.

I've never had a problem with my FEL or back hoe. Am so use to how it works and what the sounds it makes that I don't pay much attention.

Rear Stabilizers should pick the back wheels right up.
Under a hard strain the back hoe will pull the tractor backwards, even with the bucket & stabilizers set.

Below and in front of the front seat is a high / low valve. Try it in different positions, all the way to the left and / or right. Sort of a speed control adjustment, but has a slight affect on pressure.

 

[jinman]

Thanks for the feedback. I tried everything still not going up. Just went to the dealer and bought hydraulic fluid and 2 different hydraulic filters gonna start there and see what happens.

If you had a filter problem or an obstruction, you should still be able to develop full system pressure. It should lift the front end fine, but just not do it quickly. Flow controls how fast something moves, but pressure controls how strong it is. When you moved your lift arms to raise the front wheels, you didn't push the joystick all the way forward, did you? That would put you in the float position with no pressure at all. Also, if you move your joystick to the right all the way, you get into regenerative dump mode. The best method is to rotate the bucket to the full dump position and then move the joystick to lower the arms. If it won't lift the front end, then probably you have a lift cylinder seal that is leaking internally. You could verify this by putting the bucket flat on the ground and then move the joystick to dump. If the bucket lip goes down and the lift arms go up, you have a leak in the lift arms. If the bucket won't go down, you may have faulty curl cylinders, a faulty pressure regulator valve, or somebody removed your pressure adjustment shims.

If there is something wrong, it could be getting worse and become a much larger repair bill. I would take it to a dealer so you know what the problem is. Once you know, you can figure how to deal with it. If you never take it in, you run the chance of it being something simple that you've overlooked. I say it's better to know and have to wait than to not know and wait anyhow. It's your choice, of course. I hope you figure it out soon.

 

[Boomertc45]

Thanks jinman makes a lot of sense. I tried exactly what u said. First of all w bucket in full dump position 3/4 or 1/2 position noting no lift in front end. So I put bucket flat on ground then moved to dump position the bucket lip does go Down and lift arms go up. I think u r right may have lift cylinder seal internal leak. I just parked my machine and left the bucket fully retracted 10 mins later I noticed it moved down slighty. Does that indicate internal leak as well?

Not to complicate the issue, but when I put bucket flat on ground and went to dump postion the lip went down lift arms went up, but no lift, however when I retracted from dump position back to raise position the tires did raise up because the machine was fighting against the ground and in turn lifted the tires, but the issue still exsits. Hope that is clear to understand.

 

[J_J]

If your lift arms fall or the bucket dumps by it self, it could be a number of things. One or more cyl seals bad, relief valve slightly open, valve spools worn and leaking.

Take some pressure readings around the tractor hyd and note the pressures.

 

[jinman]

If your lift arms fall or the bucket dumps by it self, it could be a number of things. One or more cyl seals bad, relief valve slightly open, valve spools worn and leaking.

Take some pressure readings around the tractor hyd and note the pressures.

J_J, I agree with everything you said except for the relief valve. On our tractors, there is no relief valve in the loader circuits when the joystick is centered. The joystick is between the loader and the relief valve. For it to be caused by the relief valve, the joystick and the relief valve would have to be defective.

Boomertc45: Here is a test that will eliminate the joystick as being the problem. First start the tractor and then lower the loader to the ground with the bucket flat. Now, disconnect both the lift arm hydraulic hoses at the quick connects. This causes a hydraulic lock in the lift cylinders. Leave the bucket curl/dump lines attached. Now roll the bucket down. If the arms go up, you just proved that the arm cylinders or at least one of them is bad. It only takes one bad cylinder to cause this problem since they are in parallel.
The arms should go up a bit, but that's it. If you dump the bucket quickly enough, it will probably lift the tires and then the front end will sink as the cylinders leak.

BTW: Our cylinders and joystick do seem to leak a bit on older tractors. Actually, I've seen some new ones that will allow the bucket to sag. Mine will sag about an inch per minute with a load, but in actual operation, I can correct any sag with the joystick and I never leave loads suspended for a long time. It's not a big issue. However, if your lift cylinders leak so badly that you can't lift the front tires, that problem needs attention.

 

[J_J]

Does your FEL have regen?

If it does have regen and is in the first position to the right, you might not have very much curl.

Some FEL valves have the regen to the far right, and in this position you will not have much lift.

Try using the power position to curl and see if you can lift the front end.

 

[Boomertc45]

Jinmann thanks for the tip. So I disconnected lift arm hoses @ quick connects then curled bucket. The lift arms go up all the way. Any other way to confirm which arm cylinder is bad?

J_J I'm in the process of buying some pressure gauges. I'm sure they will be of good use. As far as regen it's in 2nd position to the right.

 

[jinman]

Boomertc45, now, you'd have to isolate each cylinder to discover which is leaking. Actually, I would not rebuild only one cylinder. I'd do them both at the same time so they both start with new seals. The seal kits range from $32 to $75 depending on the cylinder manufacturer.

 

[Boomertc45]

Jinnman thanks for all the help. I'm trying to order seal kits for lift cylinders on my 16la fel. They are asking for a part # 8digit # located near base of cylinder. I'm looking all over cleaned everything up. The only number I can see stamped on the cylinder is 1301. Do I need to take this apart to find this #? Or you may know since you have a similar machine.

 

[jinman]

There is one hydraulic cylinder with the date code and part number at the base of the cylinder. This part has been discontinued, but they can still get seals for it. The other brand of cylinder has the date code stamped near the middle of the cylinder. As far as I know, it does not have the part number with the date code. It is manufactured by Ognibene in Italy and has the more expensive repair kit. Look carefully both places on your cylinder, but is sounds like you may have the Ognibene cylinder. They should have told you that since all this info comes from the New Holland parts manuals available online.

 

[crash325]

Originally you said the back hoe also seemed weak. If you have not tested the rear stalizers and the back hoe you may be chasing problems that you do not have.

At this point I think it may have cost less to have the dealer trouble shoot the whole system. Not spending money on "Maybe" solutions.

 

[Boomertc45]

Thanks for looking out crash, I said the backhoe felt weak too, but this is my first machine i ever owned and only for a few weeks. I used it some more it actually works good. The front tires issue is bothering me a lot still. I will repair them myself sometime this week and report back. Hopefully you are wrong. Lol.

BTW: It's only costing me $150 to repair the seals. The dealer wants $150 to tow it there 1 way. $300 total just to transport. I want to sell my f150 and get a sliverado 2500 turbo diesel and trailer so I can tow this thing myself.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Thanks for looking out crash, I said the backhoe felt weak too, but this is my first machine i ever owned and only for a few weeks. I used it some more it actually works good. The front tires issue is bothering me a lot still. I will repair them myself sometime this week and report back. Hopefully you are wrong. Lol.

BTW: It's only costing me $150 to repair the seals. The dealer wants $150 to tow it there 1 way. $300 total just to transport. I want to sell my f150 and get a sliverado 2500 turbo diesel and trailer so I can tow this thing myself.

Can you pull the cylinders off and throw them in your pickup and take them to the dealer? No need to take the entire tractor.
They're not that hard to rebuild so you might want to consider doing them yourself.

 

[jinman]

Can you pull the cylinders off and throw them in your pickup and take them to the dealer? No need to take the entire tractor.
They're not that hard to rebuild so you might want to consider doing them yourself.

I agree Jerry. It sure seems to be easier and MUCH cheaper to pull the cylinders and take them to the dealer, even if you don't feel confident enough to attempt the job yourself.