Front end loader failure after filter change

[cgraham]

It's a mystery to me why the FEL on my KB1914, which was perfectly fine before, is dead after ONLY cleaning the filter. The filter, by the way, had no particles of consequence in it.

I checked the transmission, added about a pint to bring the fluid up to the mark. I did absolutely nothing else to the system. I tried running the engine for a while, shifted all the controls. No deal.

All the drive functions are fine, except I can't go anywhere because the FEL is "grounded".

None of the causes for this malfunction listed in the manual seem to be likely - the fluid did not appear to be near dirty enough for a blockage (only 50 hr), and I can't see why changing the filter would cause something to "break".

An air lock perhaps?

I'd appreciate suggestions on how to attack this problem. Thanks!

C

 

[wallace]

Disconnect and reconnect the quick couplers, also check the valve and make sure it is in the proper position.
The valve is located sitting on the seat behind your right heal.

Are you getting any movement?

 

[cgraham]

Thanks for responding, Rick. I'll check out your suggestions tomorrow. I'm not familiar with the valve, and the pics in the manual are pretty poor.

Zero movement to date.

C

 

[IslandTractor]

Disconnect and reconnect the quick couplers, also check the valve and make sure it is in the proper position.
The valve is located sitting on the seat behind your right heal.

Are you getting any movement?

Rick, I don't know the 1914 well but isn't the valve you are referring to just to regulate the 3PT hydraulics and not the loader? On a CK20 it certainly doesn't affect the loader if my memory serves.

 

[BTI]

How long did you run it and at what speed?
Is the tractor on level ground?
Does the 3pt hitch work?
If only at idle it would take a long time for the pump to pick back up.
Rev it up a bit and hold the loader valve in a flow position.
If you push it into the "down" position too far it will go into float and no fluid will flow to the loader.

BTI

 

[Highbeam]

Can you feel the joystick working the valves? Does it move in the same range as before? I ask because the CK30 has this little joystick lockout button that is easy to forget about. Also if the joystick was inadvertently pushed forward into float you could wiggle the stick around in all directions but not actually work the valves to use the loader so you should make an effort to pull it out of float.

The 3ph lift works though, right?

 

[cgraham]

Highbeam and BTI:

I cannot feel the joystick "working the valves" - I feel no feedback at all. Movement range seems normal. I don't know about a lockout button - not mentioned in the manual.

If it is stuck in float, I don't know how to get it out. I have tried all joystick positions.

I have never used the 3-pnt hitch (PTO-driven backhoe installed). I don't know if it is working. I'll try to find out.

The tractor is level. I suppose I ran it about 5 minutes at medium RPM, plus several other times for various durations. I have tended to rotate the loader control, rather than holding it in one position - though I favored UP.

The LB 1914 has a joystick detent to the right. I think this is the float - it is not clearly explained in the manual, and I have not needed the float function so far. It was in this position when I changed the filter I think. Maybe that means something.

Is the FEL hydraulic sustem supposed to be self-purging (of air)?

I don't have much time today, but I'll try a few things.

Thanks for the suggestions,

C

 

[BTI]

The LB1914 doesn't have the lock on it like the Ck series does.
The all the way right is the quick dump circuit.
The Float is when the stick is pushed to it's furthest position away from you toward the front of the tractor.
It should self purge. BUT I have never changed JUST the filter on a 1914.
We have always done the full fluid and filter change.
It could very well make a sort of vapor lock.
As something to try I would drop the filter back off and fill the canister with fluid.
Then reinstall. This is gonna be REAL messy.
Sometimes reason plays little role in why things don't work LOL.

BTI

 

[cgraham]

Highbeam and BTI:

I cannot feel the joystick "working the valves" - I feel no feedback at all. Movement range seems normal. I don't know about a lockout button - not mentioned in the manual.

If it is stuck in float, I don't know how to get it out. I have tried all joystick positions.

I have never used the 3-point hitch (PTO-driven backhoe installed). There is NO way this valve could have been turned accidentally.

The tractor is level. I suppose I ran it about 5 minutes at medium RPM, plus several other times for various durations. I have tended to rotate the loader control, rather than holding it in one position - though I favored UP.

The LB 1914 has a joystick detent to the right. I think this is the float - it is not clearly explained in the manual, and I have not needed the float function so far. It was in this position when I changed the filter I think. Maybe that means something.

Is the FEL hydraulic sustem supposed to be self-purging (of air)?

Thanks for the suggestions.


Here is what I tried today:

1. Run tractor at max rpm for 10 min, while holding joystick in LIFT position. Checked other positions during another 15 minutes running.

2. Located 3 point hitch valve, and turned it on. (I never used TPH before). It did not lift with valve in either position.

3. Removed filter again: the bowl was full, and a cup of fluid ran out. There was a very little very fine gold and silver swarf in the bowl. When originally removed, there was a little fine silver swarf only IIRC. I did not replace the filter and retest, for lack of time.

4. Disconnected and reconnected quick connect joints. No fluid escaped, and nothing of note happened. I did not test the effect of this, because the filter was not reinstalled. I'll do that tomorrow.

So still not operational: if the 3PH not working indicates a pump problem, I'm floored why this would be associated with cleaning the filter!

C

 

[rback33]

Your are headed down the right path here. Since your 3ph does not work, it is certainly tractor related I think. I have NEVER seen a relief stick on the loader valve that is on the KL1210. When checking the next time, note if the valve gets warm to the touch or not. If the relief is stuck open on the valve, it will heat the oil up faster than just cycling through the pump. Also, the detent to the left is the regen circuit of the valve. There are a couple of good threads in general owning and operating that explain this well.

 

[cgraham]

"If the relief is stuck open on the valve ......"

You lost me from here on, rback33.

Of course I don't know the parts and how to ID them, much less how to fix them.

I'll try to find the threads you mentioned.

I really hope I'm not headed to the dealership. 80 miles away. Would the warranty cover this reapir?

What is the worth of completely draining the hydraulic oil and starting over with fresh? Is it likely to correct any problem?

C

 

[rback33]

"If the relief is stuck open on the valve ......"

You lost me from here on, rback33.


C

Sorry about that... I tend to start over peoples heads sometimes.. that's my fault not yours....

The relief is the thing on the top of the valve right in front of where the handle kit is under the boot. It's what allows oil to bypass when you try to pick up more than the system is designed for. It's a poppet and can get wedged open by contaminants. If this happens you will loose all hydraulics. Sound familiar?

You should be able to unscrew that out of there and inspect it. There will be a spring in there, so don't loose anything and keep it very clean. Be careful to loosen it at the base and not the small nut at the top. You don't want to break it either. Like I said, I have never had a Prince valve do this, but it can happen....

 

[KiotiDave]

Hi CGraham,
You may have already checked this, but it is worth mentioning. Did you put the filter back in the right direction? The spring should go on the bottom and the openning of the filter on the top. If installed wrong you won't get any hydraulic flow through the filter.
Also make sure you didn't accidently hit the directional valve on the valve body (looks like a nut with a pin through it) The valve body is usually on the side of the engine/transmission with steel hydraulic lines coming and going.
Hope this helps.
KiotiDave

 

[cgraham]

Today I removed the hydraulic filter again and ran the engine briefly, There was no flow through the hydraulic filter fitting. I would have expected all oil to circulate there because all the oil in the transmission has to be filtered. I did not leave the engine running very long without the filter off, because the manual says not to do so (no reason given). Perhaps it is all right to do so in order to purge any air in the system?

KiotiDave, Bingo! It turns out that I did install the filter upside down - thanks for mentioning that possibility. It's hard to admit one is an idiot! Now the question is, could the reversed condition have caused any damage upstream? (Also, there is an O-ring that is broken on the filter seat I must replace).


The only valve fitting your description I have found is the one that I think controls flow to the 3PH. It is locared on the tractor hydralic manifold behind my right heel. I have tried it in both positions.

I'll be checking functions again after installing the filter properly.

 

[depratt_equip]

We keep alot of these gaskets on hand, usually we replace them when cleaning the filter. You should also be able to get a large o-ring that same size at a parts store.

 

[cgraham]

Problem solved! Filter reinstallation right-way-up (spring downward) gave me a functioning tractor again.

I think when I removed the hydraulic filter, the spring caused it to pop out of the pot, and I never saw which end was up: I just made a false assumption.

I was able to determine there was no O-ring involved after all: what I saw was a circular fragment of the large rubber sleeve which seals with the filter:the ring of rubber had been cut out of it by the spring.

Lesson learned - if unsure which way a part fits, stop and think - or ask. I should have realized that the amount of force needed to install the filter upside-down was telling me something.

Thanks for all the suggestions (especially Kioti Dave, who asked the key question). I learned quite a bit in the course of this incident.

BTW, the valve Wallace referred to cuts of power to the FEL: I did not test it's effect on the 3PH. So I don't know its function.

It's a relief to have an operating tractor again.

NEWBIES: MAKE SURE THE HYDRAULIC FILTER SPRING IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FILTER BOWL, WHEN INSTALLING!

(I wish I had read that a week ago)

C