Framing nailers

[knucklehead]

I'm looking at framing nailers. I appreciate the tutorial I've gotten ghosting coversations on other air tools here on TBN, so I figured I'd start a thread here. I'll post over on CBN, too.

I've got a couple projects to do - a shed and a garage rebuild. We have great sources of local green lumber at good prices, so I'll be using rough stuff, green or dry. Football and foolishness have resulted in knees and elbows that tire soon - even forcing a week off or so if I push too far. So I'm starting to look for help - that's why we finally bought the Ford last Summer.

There are as many brands as there are colors - but I am looking at Porter Cable, Bostitch, and Senco....the local lumber yard is holding up the Senco as best (as is dear old Dad) - they also sell the other two I mentioned. I gave them my needs - build two buildings and then just homeowner work - and they suggested the Senco FramePro 751XP.

Anyone have any opinions? Experience? This model is new, I think. Locally it is around $370.00; I've found it on line for $289.00 with free shipping. The second question is does anyone have experience with Nailzone? They the lowest prices so far. I'm searching Google now, looking for business opinions of them.

 

[cowboydoc]

I've always used Paslode and have had great luck with them. They would be my recommendation. If you're truly just doing framing that cordless Paslode is one great unit.

 

[yellowyj]

I use mostly Duofast nailers and staplers. We have had a Duofast framing nailer for about 10-15 years. It is a great gun. I have also used a Porter Cable framing nailer a few times. I thought it was a good gun.

The nails are a lot cheaper for a Porter Cable then they are for our Duofast.

I have never used a Senco but it looks to be a well built gun.

 

[knucklehead]

Quick response, Doc - thanks! I was wondering about those cordless units. One of those is about the same as this Senco - mid $300 range. Reading your other posts, I know you're a busy beaver in a lot of different things - do you have a lot of time on that Paslode? Have you had to have it worked on? One of the things I am being told is that local repair is a plus - and this yard does on-site repairs on Sencos - usually seals wear out with normal use according to the sales guy. I am thinking a nailer could be a higher wear tool due to the violent reaction of the mechanism, so I am leaning toward following the advice I am being given.

My brother went to the Big Orange Box and got a Bostitch to save a few bucks - a little different model number than the usual Bostitch models - probably a HD special run. Dear Dad asked them what the difference was, other than Bostitch leaving half the parts out to maker it cheaper. It's kinda fun, shopping with my Dad. The HD Bostitch seems to be working fine so far.

Thanks, Doc

 

[knucklehead]

Yeller - thanks & welcome to TBN. Hey - that Nailzone is listed as being in Muscle (sp?) Shoals - do you know anything about them? Check them out if you are interested.

Thanks for the info. Do you have to rebuild your nailers every so often?

 

[RobS]

I've had the standard Bostitch model for several years now. Typical homeowner use and it's held up well. A couple of jams in thousands of nails but they are easy to clear. I've also got Bostitch finish nailer, brad nailer and now roofing nailer. Nails are easy to come by.

I've bought all my nailers at Lowe's using their 10% price match to Menard's prices. Always been a good deal (you'd think Lowe's would be onto Menard's pricing by now). I'm sure there are better nailers but I've been happy with these /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[knucklehead]

Thanks, Rob - I used a Bostitch N60, (I think) coil nailer to do the upstairs dormer in '92 - still have 14 coils of 2" - 3" nails of various types left over. If I had to do this "blindly", I'd go either Bostitch or Porter cable; probably Bostitch since I had no problems with them, either. I thought the coil nailers had advantages in holding more nails, but I see "everyone" runs a stick now, though.

My father has been redecking a 12x28 deck with pressure treated 5/4 decking, using galvanized nails in that stick-nail Bostitch of my brother's. He's about half done & has a raw patch rubbed on the big knuckle of his thumb from bearing on the head of the nailer. He's got to hold that thing down hard to get the head to set (yes, it's set for the depth, but maybe it's the hardness of the PT stock - Southern Pine, I think). Guess I'll be wearing a glove with my green 2" stock.

I'm leaning hard to the Senco as it's what all the local contractors are using - never even knew they existed until last week.

 

[SageBrush]

Don't forget Home Depot for the rebuilt units. I use all Senco and love the older guns. The HD's around here sell the used stuff for about 50% of retail. Pawn Shops are great to, just found a good working framer for $50 bucks. I bought it, expecting to rebuild it, but it actually works fine /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JohnMiller3]

I have a couple Craftsman and Bostitch (some since the 80’s)… and have never ever had a lick of a problem with any of them… no fatigue, lightweight, no jam problems, fast reloads, rapid & single fire, everybody and their brother carries cases of nail loads dirt cheap with a selection of penny sizes galore… /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

(find out the cost & availability of the consumables in your area before you buy anything…!) (Craftsman emulates the Bostitch, which is the number one in my area)

 

[yellowyj]

I am not familar with Nailzone. I will have to check them out though.

We have not had to rebuild any of our nail guns or staplers. That is even with most of them being used daily for about 10 years in a cabinet shop we used to own. They are now used at least weekly in a remolding business my dad runs.

The good thing about Duofast nailers is if the break or you have problems withthem you carry them to a Duofast dealer and they fix them for free /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I guess you pay for it up front though /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

The most important thing to remember with any brand is to oil it daily, or before each use.

 

[knucklehead]

Shamus - you can get rebuilt Sencos at your HD? Our stores must be so new that they don't do that yet. Not knowing much about the internals of nailguns (any air tools, really), I am leaning toward new ones. I suppose there is only some kind of valving, a bunch of seals, and a piston-like hammer of some sort.

John - Do those Craftsman units look like Bostitch's to you? I've been doing some squinting at the catalog lately.

Square Headlights /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif: I'd be really interested in anything you tell me about Nailzone - they want $289.00 for the 751XP - 80 bucks less than local prices, with free shipping. The closest price I have found elsewhere on the 'net so far is ~$329.00.

I gotta talk to another lumberyard and then to my neighbor's son who is a contractor. thanks, guys for the fast responses. Sounds like I can't really buy a loser if I stick with brand names.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Bostich or Paslode. I would not use anything else (except maybe a DeWalt just so they match the rest of our tools) Anyway, we have the Bostich N80SB-1 stick nailer and use it for almost every roof we do as we have to re sheet the decks before we shingle. We have had this nailer for 2 years now and have never had a problem. I can not begin to count the amount of nails it has shot but it is more then you will ever dream of using. We also have ran 2 Bostich RN45B roofing coil nailers for a couple years with never a problem. We do about 15 roofs a year with these guns as well as use them for a lot of other jobs like barns and sheeting houses and they have always been reliable. Just take care of them, don't abuse them, oil them before every use and you should be ok. Paslode we have used and are nice nailers, we have not used their framing nailer but only their finish nailers and they are extremly nice. I can't comment on the rest as I don't have much experience with them. As for where to buy, Home Depot has the best prices by far that I have found anywhere as they sell a lot of them so they get great prices from the factory. But you can not go wrong with Bostich.

 

[Inspector507]

I have a Craftsman as well. I bought it while I was repairing my deck. Then used it to rebuild an old enclosed breezeway room. I have had no problems, with homeowner use.

 

[_RaT_]

There are many good nailers, I would use most any of them contrary to some others opinions, and in fact, I have. I own 2 Sencos, 1 Bostich and 1 Hitachi. My largest is a Bostich 88 full head nailer. Its a good, medium priced nailer. For many years, the defacto framing nailer was Hitachi. Out West it's Hitachi and Senco, both very good nailers. Paslode comes in 3rd and then there's Bostich etc. Back East, Bostich is popular. In a recent article in Tools of the Trade, a magazine about tools, the authors rated the Spot Nails and a Bostich 88 tops for strip nailers in the 3.5" nailer and Makita and Spot Nails in the coil nailers. The safest nailer is Senco hands down. Its built in brain pretty much insures you will be safe in almost all situations and is a very well made nailer. The Bostich and Spot Nails have great power. All in all, be it Porter Cable, Paslode, Senco, Bostich, Hitachi, Makita and so many others, your getting great nailers with minor differences in features and various weights as well as power. I would certainly prefer a full head nailer today over clipped head. The other option and a very viable one is to go to coil nails. While harder to carry the rolls of nails around, they hold many more nails.

Things to consider:
1. Power
2. Ability to easily adjust flush nailing ability
3. Ease of getting repair parts
4. Fullhead or clipped
5. Strip or coil

Nail availability is pretty universal today with full head nailers.

Rat.

 

[cowboydoc]

Mark,

I've gone through thousands of nails and no problems so far. I've put up two barns, three animal shelters, a garage, and my friends addition with it and no problems. The only thing that I don't like about it is you can't nail oak with it. Well you can but it doesn't get them all the way in.

 

[SageBrush]

Home Depot sells a number of brands new and rebuilt. But, I'm in an area with mucho construction. We have building supply stores every where. The lines can get deep too.

The price of senco nails is good in my area. Like tractors, the major brands all get the job done.

Are the gas powerd guns ok now? We had a few Pasalodes ...bad spelling.... they had some problems overheating and melting. I persume thats fixed now? I would like one for the barn where I don't have power just the generator.

 

[just_toolin]

I have been quite happy with both my senco nailers, framing and finish. Built a horse run-in, and 30 x 54 barn with one jam (operator error). Changed the trigger to prevent rapid fire, found that as I became tired I would bounce the head and stick two nails where I wanted one. You might want to consider overall weight and feel. You can put in alot more nails than with a hammer, but it is still hard on the elbow if you tend to overdo it on the weekends like me.

 

[higgy]

I have Arie and Senco nailers, and have used Bostich, spotnail and Pasload. All are good equipment if you maintain it. My favorite is a senco SN65 for framing. What you might want to do is look at the size of nail that you will be using most and size the gun to the nail/job as not all nailers will fire the same size range, some go down to 2.5 inches some only to 3, some shoot cliphead nails some shoot full round (my liking is full round). You might check with your local buiding autority as not all area will accept all types of fasteners, not a lot of fun to buid somthing to have to take it apart again. Not all nailers will bounce nail and triggernail, but most will now.

When driving nails watch your pressure and make sure that you do not over drive the nail if you are useing sheeting (ply, osb etc.) the inspectors will get all over you for that and it is easy to do, you just want the head of the nail to be flush or slightly indented into the wood surface.

If you have a local suppler that is good buy their brand as they will have repair parts on hand, and you will need them some day.

I have bought some of mine from net dealers with good results and the local shop will repair them with no problem.

Just my 0.02

 

[knucklehead]

How may times have I read other members say "I knew I'd get all the info I needed here". Big dittos! I am trying to walk the line between professional viewpoints (Father, friends), and my uses, which can get close to the intensity of pros but not in a sustained fashion. Ultimately it's only around $80.00 difference in local prices and I don't think I'll sweat that. I was mostly interested if you guys would all line up for/against one particular brand, and I am getting the impression that there aren't many clunkers out there.

Most of the work I do is done in a week or two, and I use mostly hand tools because that's the way I was taught - although I also use an old, very well built Porter cable 6-3/4" model 146A saw from the 60's (I think) and a 9" Delta "Power miterbox" from at least a couple decades ago when doing a lot of site cutting - like framing a wall or putting up clapboards. Most of my portable power tools are older Porter cable, or Milwaukee. All of my shop tools are Delta. Dad has started buying Grizzly after some one else broke the ice in his circle of friends - he now has a half dozen large shop tools by them. They also make really inexpensive portable power tools (Too bad they're puke green, though /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). We're waiting for someone else to get one and use it hard.

Air tools are something new; I am a little wary of the Big Stores with their "close but not the same models". We've had a few negative experiences with the only big store around for most of my life (44 yrs) - Sears. We always had Craftsman hand tools - never anything with moving parts was the rule - until lately. I think Sears has really gotten with the program as far as tools goes. Sears is another place that responded positively to competition instead of whining.

Now for another question, which some have already mentioned: We don't have code requirements one way or another (yet), so most people I know use clipped heads so they can load more nails at once. I think they look wimpy (like a box nail), and I know you can't pull 'em. Do any of you have a strong preference where you aren't bound by code? Are the heads thicker? I should go break a box open and see for myself. I was going for round heads and the pros around here said don't bother - no problems with clipped. Dad's even shooting clipped nails into his deck - and that's one place where we'll always see them and also need to have them hold and not work out. I guess ten years will tell, since the deck gets full sun, but I'll be buying within a month, not a decade (like the tractor /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif).

We're beaching it for the next couple days so I'll be in & out. I appreciate all the helpful replies, thank you very much!

 

[knucklehead]

<font color="blue">What you might want to do is look at the size of nail that you will be using most and size the gun to the nail/job </font>

Higgy - welcome to TBN & thanks for you reply. Your comment got me thinking that maybe I should just lay my plans all out, if it makes a difference in advice. A great & perilous risk because now I have to get moving and do it!

The reason I am finally joining the 21st century and getting a nailer is that I am looking at building a 20'x24' shed with a second floor for storage, then tearing down my 24' square garage and rebuilding it from the foundation with a finished second floor and possibly a "tool room" addition of 12'x24'. Then I'll rest and heal and save some bucks, and I'd like a 36' or 48'x24' pole barn attached to the shed. There is a possibility, if the kids really get into the hand work, that the garage will later be expanded to 24' x 48'. All of this in the next 5-10 years, Lord willing. So we're talking between 3000 & 4500 sq ft of floor area (I'm dreamin'!). I know that's not a great deal of construction for some of my TBN bretheren, but it's a lot for me. My house is 28'x36' and we think it's big enough.

With the availability and price of rough stuff - full 2" stock, I am looking at a lot of 3-1/2" nailing, even with the garage. An air nailer is going to keep my elbow from falling off, although I have a couple young elbows here that will benefit from the exercise and experience. My nailer will probably be dialed up to the longest nail I can fit into it and I'll even be toenailing studs with it that way - 8's are just too short for toenailing full dimension lumber. That's why I am asking about "ruggedosity", because I think the nailer will be maxed out most of the time - I'm really more comfortable with hand tools and will hand drive when I need a shorter nail somewhere instead of changing the nailer all around for that. I'm even going to deck the first floor of the shed with 2" stock and not 3/4 T&G, so I can roll the tractor in if I want to work on it before I get the pole barn built.

My experience with power tools is that something that is advertised for "A thru Z" is great up to about M or P, and starts to get tired if you venture close to T, and will break sooner than later if you dare to use it for X, Y, or Z for very long. I am going to dial my nailer up to Z and stay there, replacing parts as necessary. I'm even going to order a rebuild kit with it, if I can get one. My impression from all of the replies is that about all of nailers can do the 3-1/2" work and stay together. I just don't want to be working on a tool more than using it - I threw away my two Arrow T-50 staplers and bought a Duo Fast hammer tacker because I was tired of taking the Arrows apart to get them working again (papering a building roof & walls). I'd rather not be doing that with a nailer, either.

Again, I do appreciate every word you guys are contirbuting.