Builder
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KICK said:
AMEN!
And as for the GM v. IH stuff, at least they're both AMERICAN!
Ford closing Cleveland engine plant
- Thread starter dgl24087
- Start date
- Views: 4946
AMEN!
And as for the GM v. IH stuff, at least they're both AMERICAN!
Volfandt
Veteran Member
If you don't think that theres foreign made materials, parts and engineering in those companys product's then the coolaide your drinking is definitely spiked with something. If not for these foregn inputs those companys couldn't compete against foreign competiton....
You know, if the American consumer really wanted to do business with only American owned companys then there would be no foreign competition. But the FACTS are that the American consumer wants good quality at an affordable price and it took an invasion of foreign large ticket items dateing all the back to the 70's to show them that the way "we" were doing things weren't providing this very simple and basic requirement.
You want to live in the past of the great WWII victory then feel free to, it's s free country but, whilst your head is still buried in the sand you'll not notice that GM has lost it's lofty ranking to another manufacturer thats been steadily eating it's lunch in the market place for decades now.
Oh and you didn't answer my question as to which auto manufactuer is closing it's plants and moving them overseas's and which manufacturer is building plants in the USA and employing Americans.......
Now raise your head out of the sand enough and you'll see it
5030
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Boy oh boy, all you guys are crying about American made and you all have Kubota (read made in Japan).....what gives with that?
That's okay though. I have a solution. Just ship your Kubota's to me and go get an Italian or British or Japanese John Deere, or Italian or Japanese New Holland or a Japanese Case and fly that flag high. Excuse me, American flag probably made in China. Better yet, do your chores by hand. Use a shovel and a hoe and a rake. Physical work builds character. Whiners have no character or backbone. That's what I read here in this thread....
I have a few pre-requisites though.
First off, I don't want any payment books. I'll take the tractors and attachments, you keep making the payments. KCC needs the business, you are going to need the good credit anyway. Especially when gas prices go past 4 bucks to 5 bucks and beyond. You say it won't happen, it will. It's gonna happen and in the not too distant future. The tree hugging, special interest groups and PACS have their hand in your pocketbook right now. All for some duck off the coast somewhere that needs protected. Protected at what price. Wait until that duck is costing you 70 bucks to fill that pickup or SUV. Think about that. Keep those payments up...you'll need the credit.
Any tractor under 90 horsepower, drain all the fluids and take it to the scrap yard to be shredded. After it's shredded, the scrap yard will probably sell the shreds (that's what it's called) to the Chinese. They are paying more than the American mini mills are right now. Then the Chinese will re-melt the shreds in their own mills which aren't encumbered by all the rules and regulations imposed by the gummit under the guise of clean air, water and conserving natural resources and of course to appease the tree huggers and all the other special interest groups that wine and dine and provide gratuitous favors to our elected officials on Pennsylvania Avenue. You know, the ones we elected to represent our best interests. Then the Chinese will ship the steel back to us, almost tariff free and sell it to domestic steel suppliers who in turn sell it to end users, our manufacturing plants.
If you do have a real Kubota and I mean a real Kubota over 90 horsepower with R1's a couple of remotes and a big FEL, ship it to me. I respect big iron, especially Orange big iron. Those little (read under 90 horse suburban wannabe farmer tractors), shred 'em. Send it freight collect. I want it freshly serviced, greased and ready to work, farm work. Those little tractors are fine for playing with but that's it.
Back to reality. Wasn't that fun?
The Cleveland Casting plant is being shuttered because Fords (we say Fords here in Michigan because it's Henry Fords place) is trying to keep competitive in the marketplace and has, at present, excess manufacturing capacity. The Lima engine plant can supply ALL of Fords present engine needs now and in the future. Of course, who knows what the future will hold. It's way past time for Stinky finger and the UAW (read You Ain't Working) to step up and back off with concessions to health and pension packages to help the automakers stay afloat because, in a nutshell, the auto makers are the LAST heavy industry left in this country. We have almost become a SERVICE economy and who can afford the price of admission working at Wally World.
Of course, the employees at the Brookpark Casting Plant could form an alliance and BUY the plant from Fords. You probably don't know this and you may not care though you should, but, there are virtually no foundries or casting houses left in the USA either large or small. Why not you say? Because your gummit put them out of business with pollution standards that were so costly that the casting business became unprofitable and unprofitable business ventures eventually go **** up. So where do castings come from you say? You know the answer.....but we can keep it quiet. I'll never tell that the American icon, Harley Davidson has their engines cast over there...no, not China, India. They have more sand there. Caterpillar Engine.....India. We will leave China to Wal-Mart.
That immense foundry with state of the art scrubbers and EPA emissions compliant machinery could be purchased by the rank and file and turned basically overnight into a very profitable business venture but it won't happen. Why not you say? Because those workers are just like the posters in this thread, that's why.
Just send those REAL tractors. Shred the rest.
That's okay though. I have a solution. Just ship your Kubota's to me and go get an Italian or British or Japanese John Deere, or Italian or Japanese New Holland or a Japanese Case and fly that flag high. Excuse me, American flag probably made in China. Better yet, do your chores by hand. Use a shovel and a hoe and a rake. Physical work builds character. Whiners have no character or backbone. That's what I read here in this thread....
I have a few pre-requisites though.
First off, I don't want any payment books. I'll take the tractors and attachments, you keep making the payments. KCC needs the business, you are going to need the good credit anyway. Especially when gas prices go past 4 bucks to 5 bucks and beyond. You say it won't happen, it will. It's gonna happen and in the not too distant future. The tree hugging, special interest groups and PACS have their hand in your pocketbook right now. All for some duck off the coast somewhere that needs protected. Protected at what price. Wait until that duck is costing you 70 bucks to fill that pickup or SUV. Think about that. Keep those payments up...you'll need the credit.
Any tractor under 90 horsepower, drain all the fluids and take it to the scrap yard to be shredded. After it's shredded, the scrap yard will probably sell the shreds (that's what it's called) to the Chinese. They are paying more than the American mini mills are right now. Then the Chinese will re-melt the shreds in their own mills which aren't encumbered by all the rules and regulations imposed by the gummit under the guise of clean air, water and conserving natural resources and of course to appease the tree huggers and all the other special interest groups that wine and dine and provide gratuitous favors to our elected officials on Pennsylvania Avenue. You know, the ones we elected to represent our best interests. Then the Chinese will ship the steel back to us, almost tariff free and sell it to domestic steel suppliers who in turn sell it to end users, our manufacturing plants.
If you do have a real Kubota and I mean a real Kubota over 90 horsepower with R1's a couple of remotes and a big FEL, ship it to me. I respect big iron, especially Orange big iron. Those little (read under 90 horse suburban wannabe farmer tractors), shred 'em. Send it freight collect. I want it freshly serviced, greased and ready to work, farm work. Those little tractors are fine for playing with but that's it.
Back to reality. Wasn't that fun?
The Cleveland Casting plant is being shuttered because Fords (we say Fords here in Michigan because it's Henry Fords place) is trying to keep competitive in the marketplace and has, at present, excess manufacturing capacity. The Lima engine plant can supply ALL of Fords present engine needs now and in the future. Of course, who knows what the future will hold. It's way past time for Stinky finger and the UAW (read You Ain't Working) to step up and back off with concessions to health and pension packages to help the automakers stay afloat because, in a nutshell, the auto makers are the LAST heavy industry left in this country. We have almost become a SERVICE economy and who can afford the price of admission working at Wally World.
Of course, the employees at the Brookpark Casting Plant could form an alliance and BUY the plant from Fords. You probably don't know this and you may not care though you should, but, there are virtually no foundries or casting houses left in the USA either large or small. Why not you say? Because your gummit put them out of business with pollution standards that were so costly that the casting business became unprofitable and unprofitable business ventures eventually go **** up. So where do castings come from you say? You know the answer.....but we can keep it quiet. I'll never tell that the American icon, Harley Davidson has their engines cast over there...no, not China, India. They have more sand there. Caterpillar Engine.....India. We will leave China to Wal-Mart.
That immense foundry with state of the art scrubbers and EPA emissions compliant machinery could be purchased by the rank and file and turned basically overnight into a very profitable business venture but it won't happen. Why not you say? Because those workers are just like the posters in this thread, that's why.
Just send those REAL tractors. Shred the rest.
JoeinTX
Platinum Member
@L39
"Better read your facts, bro. It ain't available with a crewcab and an 8' bed:
2008 Nissan Titan Crew Cab Specifications - Nissan USA.."
Um, you should check yours, professor:
Inside Line: Nissan Titan Central
...and they are now being shown on the Nissan site for availability.
"Big deal. "severe duty"....whhhooooooo.....Look out!!! We're in trouble now!!! Anyone knows the competition will only make Ford & GM better..."
Uh-huh. That sounds like the same thing the Big 3 were telling themselves 25 years ago when the first serious imports hit the shores.........which have subsequently driven the Big 2.5 to near bankruptcy. I think history here is rather obvious. The Japanese have proved very capable of targeting and being successful in a given market.
Your reaction and kind of thinking is exactly what has gotten so much of American business in the trouble they are today. As the saying goes, ignorance can be bliss.
"Ever take the time to read a C/R truck comparison??? I'm coming from the viewpoint of a guy who uses a truck for its' intended purpose, like plowing snow, utility body & lumber racks, driving across jobsites, etc.? C/R tests are more concerned with how many kids fit in the back seat, fuel mileage and number of cupholders. Great for you soccer moms. Meaningless for me..."
Never laid eyes upon it.
"Last time I checked, accounting, budgets and advertising were part of business culture....in America and Japan. I see plenty of blingy Nissan Titan ads during football games, too ya know...."
You missed entirely, and this is becoming a recurring theme for you, the point I was illustrating. Too often in modern American business culture, it's the glitz and marketing that are deemed to make a product a success or failure rather than the engineering or support. Get it out there......make a splash....no need to make it reliable because it will be replaced in 6 months anyway....etc, etc. So many of their competitors take more time in the product and rely on it to make the buzz which is the proper way to go.
"We owned one foreign car. At my wife's insistance, we bought a '99 Nissan pathfinder. We had nothing but problems, the dealer was a thief, and it brought us terrible resale value. But what do I know....I'm just another owner, the guy that had to fix the **** thing. But C/R said it was great, so we bought it and C/R "knows everything".....riiiiightt"
You had a bad experience.....so has just about everyone. I had a '96 Ford pickup that was an absolute disaster......blown head gasket at 40k miles....tranny at 51K.....radiator coil at 55K.....two trips to the dealer on seperate occasions because the fuel injection system was malfunctioning and burning out fuel pumps. I actually gave the pickup to my brother and simply started all over in 2001 with a different make.
However, I went back to the well in '06 and purchased a new Ford..........and so far it has been a great pickup. My GF drove her Acura to 171k miles with only routine (if that) maintenance. A good friend put 140K on his Toyota Tacoma and the darned thing was tougher than a boot. Sister drove a Rodeo without problem for just short of a decade.
"BTW: Nissan was teetering on bankruptcy ~9 years ago, renault bailed them out....hmmmmm, must have been too much Nissan "quality" huh???..."
Yes, they were on the rocks several years ago. But, I think you'll find that Nissan today is quite a comeback story and making nice profits. If any of the Detroit 2.5 can replicate Nissan's performance it will be impressive.
"yep, great country we live in, isn't it? It's great that we keep democracy alive in the world. Good thing we defeated that country in WW II .....who was it again?????? Oh yeah, JAPAN......or we might be all buying Toyotas & hondas, isn't that right?.."
Well, I don't even really understand what you're saying here. WW2 is now 60+ years on and geopolitical realities have changed dramatically since then. In today's world we have some very serious and reliable allies for whom both their and our interests are virtually the same and Japan is centrally among them along with the likes of the U.K, Australia, Saudi Arabia, and increasingly India. Pearl Harbor was a terrible thing 66 years ago..........but the world has changed immeassurably since then.
Post-WW2 the vast amount of the world's industry had been detroyed by the war and we in North America were blessed to not have been seriously affected. In the aftermath, as Europe and Japan were rebuilding their economies from near scratch, North American concerns were reaping the benefits because their companies and factories could provide the world the products they need with little competition. As the decades have progressed, these foreign companies have devised methods and processes for producing products in ways that we may have never considered. Now, as we North Americans for decades had gotten comfortable to being preeminent in producing goods, we are now so threatened when others have progressively come to life and asserted themselves in the free and open marketplace. And, often so with better ideas, methods, and mentalities than we.
And, for all of those who love America and the lesson of our founding fathers, I present the following from Ben Franklin:
"No nation was ever ruined by trade."
"Drive thy Business, or it will drive thee."
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
"Why should we Colonials spend time producing, at a loss, what we can procure at a profit from overseas?"
"Better read your facts, bro. It ain't available with a crewcab and an 8' bed:
2008 Nissan Titan Crew Cab Specifications - Nissan USA.."
Um, you should check yours, professor:
Inside Line: Nissan Titan Central
...and they are now being shown on the Nissan site for availability.
"Big deal. "severe duty"....whhhooooooo.....Look out!!! We're in trouble now!!! Anyone knows the competition will only make Ford & GM better..."
Uh-huh. That sounds like the same thing the Big 3 were telling themselves 25 years ago when the first serious imports hit the shores.........which have subsequently driven the Big 2.5 to near bankruptcy. I think history here is rather obvious. The Japanese have proved very capable of targeting and being successful in a given market.
Your reaction and kind of thinking is exactly what has gotten so much of American business in the trouble they are today. As the saying goes, ignorance can be bliss.
"Ever take the time to read a C/R truck comparison??? I'm coming from the viewpoint of a guy who uses a truck for its' intended purpose, like plowing snow, utility body & lumber racks, driving across jobsites, etc.? C/R tests are more concerned with how many kids fit in the back seat, fuel mileage and number of cupholders. Great for you soccer moms. Meaningless for me..."
Never laid eyes upon it.
"Last time I checked, accounting, budgets and advertising were part of business culture....in America and Japan. I see plenty of blingy Nissan Titan ads during football games, too ya know...."
You missed entirely, and this is becoming a recurring theme for you, the point I was illustrating. Too often in modern American business culture, it's the glitz and marketing that are deemed to make a product a success or failure rather than the engineering or support. Get it out there......make a splash....no need to make it reliable because it will be replaced in 6 months anyway....etc, etc. So many of their competitors take more time in the product and rely on it to make the buzz which is the proper way to go.
"We owned one foreign car. At my wife's insistance, we bought a '99 Nissan pathfinder. We had nothing but problems, the dealer was a thief, and it brought us terrible resale value. But what do I know....I'm just another owner, the guy that had to fix the **** thing. But C/R said it was great, so we bought it and C/R "knows everything".....riiiiightt"
You had a bad experience.....so has just about everyone. I had a '96 Ford pickup that was an absolute disaster......blown head gasket at 40k miles....tranny at 51K.....radiator coil at 55K.....two trips to the dealer on seperate occasions because the fuel injection system was malfunctioning and burning out fuel pumps. I actually gave the pickup to my brother and simply started all over in 2001 with a different make.
However, I went back to the well in '06 and purchased a new Ford..........and so far it has been a great pickup. My GF drove her Acura to 171k miles with only routine (if that) maintenance. A good friend put 140K on his Toyota Tacoma and the darned thing was tougher than a boot. Sister drove a Rodeo without problem for just short of a decade.
"BTW: Nissan was teetering on bankruptcy ~9 years ago, renault bailed them out....hmmmmm, must have been too much Nissan "quality" huh???..."
Yes, they were on the rocks several years ago. But, I think you'll find that Nissan today is quite a comeback story and making nice profits. If any of the Detroit 2.5 can replicate Nissan's performance it will be impressive.
"yep, great country we live in, isn't it? It's great that we keep democracy alive in the world. Good thing we defeated that country in WW II .....who was it again?????? Oh yeah, JAPAN......or we might be all buying Toyotas & hondas, isn't that right?.."
Well, I don't even really understand what you're saying here. WW2 is now 60+ years on and geopolitical realities have changed dramatically since then. In today's world we have some very serious and reliable allies for whom both their and our interests are virtually the same and Japan is centrally among them along with the likes of the U.K, Australia, Saudi Arabia, and increasingly India. Pearl Harbor was a terrible thing 66 years ago..........but the world has changed immeassurably since then.
Post-WW2 the vast amount of the world's industry had been detroyed by the war and we in North America were blessed to not have been seriously affected. In the aftermath, as Europe and Japan were rebuilding their economies from near scratch, North American concerns were reaping the benefits because their companies and factories could provide the world the products they need with little competition. As the decades have progressed, these foreign companies have devised methods and processes for producing products in ways that we may have never considered. Now, as we North Americans for decades had gotten comfortable to being preeminent in producing goods, we are now so threatened when others have progressively come to life and asserted themselves in the free and open marketplace. And, often so with better ideas, methods, and mentalities than we.
And, for all of those who love America and the lesson of our founding fathers, I present the following from Ben Franklin:
"No nation was ever ruined by trade."
"Drive thy Business, or it will drive thee."
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
"Why should we Colonials spend time producing, at a loss, what we can procure at a profit from overseas?"
JoeinTX
Platinum Member
And, then, 5030 chimes in with some supreme observations.
Virtually all who are visiting this site.......a site for CUT/sub-CUT owners is operating a primarily foreign-built piece of equipment regardless of name or dealer.
You may have a Zetor-built J.D. or a Brazilian made AGCO or an Italian made New Holland. You may also have an American built Lexion or a Tennessee produced Komatsu or an Arkansas assembled Montana. You may also be hauling these items around with a German-owned Dodge Ram or an Arkansas built Hino or a Chevy with an Isuzu engine. You could be supplementing your business with a Honda mower or Echo weed eater as you drive to the job site on gas bought at the Shell or BP or Q-8 convenience store. You're making your appointments on a cell phone produced by Samsung or Sanyo or LG or Sony.........many of which have a Qualcomm chip or Motorola componentry on a Nortel (Canadian) network while punching quick numbers through a Casio or Mitsubishi calculator. You've gone shopping at the local Harbor freight for the best deals on Chinese-made handtools and Robin engines to get what your business needs. You surf the web to scour the eBay for the quick sale on your Vaio or Lenovo or Daewoo computer so that the Honda engine/pump unit you want goes to you and not someone else. At the end of the day, you eat dinner with Taiwanese silverware on Salvadorean plates and wash-up with American dish-soap before you watch TV on the good ol' Samsung from Wal-Mart which was only $250. All the while the kids are playing the X-Box made in Korea for a Japanese company and sold for dollars on the penny and afterwards you bang on the Thai produced keyboard about "foreign companies" as the Malaysian made modem fights through network interruptions and your Indonesion flat-panel looks fantastic.
Today's world is one of enormous international trade and commerce. Everyone is selling everything to everyone............and if you're not you are in trouble. Oceans, boundaries........the mean little to money and production.
I don't care one whit about driving a Mitsu after purchasing the vehicle at market price........paying the salesman, line-workers, and managers accordingly....so long as it serves with reliability and the company can cover basic gaffes with a warranty.
This is the American way. We vote with our wallets in a free and open marketplace and elect the winners and losers monetarily.
Virtually all who are visiting this site.......a site for CUT/sub-CUT owners is operating a primarily foreign-built piece of equipment regardless of name or dealer.
You may have a Zetor-built J.D. or a Brazilian made AGCO or an Italian made New Holland. You may also have an American built Lexion or a Tennessee produced Komatsu or an Arkansas assembled Montana. You may also be hauling these items around with a German-owned Dodge Ram or an Arkansas built Hino or a Chevy with an Isuzu engine. You could be supplementing your business with a Honda mower or Echo weed eater as you drive to the job site on gas bought at the Shell or BP or Q-8 convenience store. You're making your appointments on a cell phone produced by Samsung or Sanyo or LG or Sony.........many of which have a Qualcomm chip or Motorola componentry on a Nortel (Canadian) network while punching quick numbers through a Casio or Mitsubishi calculator. You've gone shopping at the local Harbor freight for the best deals on Chinese-made handtools and Robin engines to get what your business needs. You surf the web to scour the eBay for the quick sale on your Vaio or Lenovo or Daewoo computer so that the Honda engine/pump unit you want goes to you and not someone else. At the end of the day, you eat dinner with Taiwanese silverware on Salvadorean plates and wash-up with American dish-soap before you watch TV on the good ol' Samsung from Wal-Mart which was only $250. All the while the kids are playing the X-Box made in Korea for a Japanese company and sold for dollars on the penny and afterwards you bang on the Thai produced keyboard about "foreign companies" as the Malaysian made modem fights through network interruptions and your Indonesion flat-panel looks fantastic.
Today's world is one of enormous international trade and commerce. Everyone is selling everything to everyone............and if you're not you are in trouble. Oceans, boundaries........the mean little to money and production.
I don't care one whit about driving a Mitsu after purchasing the vehicle at market price........paying the salesman, line-workers, and managers accordingly....so long as it serves with reliability and the company can cover basic gaffes with a warranty.
This is the American way. We vote with our wallets in a free and open marketplace and elect the winners and losers monetarily.
Turbys_1700
Elite Member
On a related note...
One thing that always pizzes me off is that all the car mags rant and rave over the imports and quality and blah,blah,blah. Not one word about how much parts cost for repairs to those overrated pieces of iron. They do long term test that are a joke. To me the quality of a vehicle is how much you've had to repair it over a longer period of time and the cost of those repairs.
Case in point is my 96 Cadillac Seville SLS. 196K miles. Have I repaired stuff. You bet. But nothing major, all parts can easily be sourced at a NAPA or Advance, and my local garage can do the repairs when needed. Try doing that with some of the imports. Ain't gonna happen.
One thing that always pizzes me off is that all the car mags rant and rave over the imports and quality and blah,blah,blah. Not one word about how much parts cost for repairs to those overrated pieces of iron. They do long term test that are a joke. To me the quality of a vehicle is how much you've had to repair it over a longer period of time and the cost of those repairs.
Case in point is my 96 Cadillac Seville SLS. 196K miles. Have I repaired stuff. You bet. But nothing major, all parts can easily be sourced at a NAPA or Advance, and my local garage can do the repairs when needed. Try doing that with some of the imports. Ain't gonna happen.
Builder
Super Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,155
- Tractor
- Kubota, AGCO, New Holland LB
I sold my L-39 3 months ago, had an L-35 before that. Decent machines, but far too small & underpowered for what I need.
Buying a Deere or Case to replace them. Haven't decided which one, but both made in USA. I looked at foreign backhoes, like Komatsu & Volvo (Samsung) and found the domestic ones to be superior.
I wonder why can't the Japanese or the Chinese can't build a better backhoe than us lazy, overadvertising, "razzle-dazzle", "outdated", over-benefitted, "inept", "brainwashed-unionized", "greedy" American union & management that Wolfandt and others in this thread spoke of? ???
Never in any of my previous posts did I say everything that's made in USA has 100% domestic content. Rarely is anything made in any country built 100% from engineering, parts and labor from that given country, either.
Can you tell me what "skilled craftsmen" are required to work assembling cars in all the Toyota & Nissan plants? Please, I need to know what "skilled craftsmen" are required to put a seat in a Camry or rattle the lug nuts onto a Titan.
Buying a Deere or Case to replace them. Haven't decided which one, but both made in USA. I looked at foreign backhoes, like Komatsu & Volvo (Samsung) and found the domestic ones to be superior.
I wonder why can't the Japanese or the Chinese can't build a better backhoe than us lazy, overadvertising, "razzle-dazzle", "outdated", over-benefitted, "inept", "brainwashed-unionized", "greedy" American union & management that Wolfandt and others in this thread spoke of? ???
Never in any of my previous posts did I say everything that's made in USA has 100% domestic content. Rarely is anything made in any country built 100% from engineering, parts and labor from that given country, either.
Volfandt said:
Can you tell me what "skilled craftsmen" are required to work assembling cars in all the Toyota & Nissan plants? Please, I need to know what "skilled craftsmen" are required to put a seat in a Camry or rattle the lug nuts onto a Titan.
Last edited:
Builder
Super Member
- Joined
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- 6,155
- Tractor
- Kubota, AGCO, New Holland LB
Turbys_1700 said:
Cadillac has excellent quality ratings. I wonder how they do it with such "inept", "outdated", "brainwashed" union employees building them?
milkman
Elite Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2001
- Messages
- 3,555
- Tractor
- BX2200, BCS 735
Then the Chinese will ship the steel back to us, almost tariff free and sell it to domestic steel suppliers who in turn sell it to end users, our manufacturing plants.
After they mix in the DU contaminated scrap from Iraq and Afghanistan, then our gummit collects a 40% tariff on the "imported" steel.
After they mix in the DU contaminated scrap from Iraq and Afghanistan, then our gummit collects a 40% tariff on the "imported" steel.