Ford 850 won't run

[jmcgill89]

Today, I attempted to do the first round of maintenance on my newly purchased 1955 Ford 800 tractor. It's not a garage queen, and has been outside for a while, as evidenced by the milky sludge in the air cleaner.

I got that cleaned out, and was promptly dismayed that it just wouldn't run right. On a cold start, it starts right up, no choke even needed. After getting warmed up, anytime I put any kind of load on it, whether it was the PTO/Bush Hog, or just putting it in first gear, it would immediately start to surge badly and then stall out. After the third time, the battery (six volt) was dead, and I had no hope of getting it started again. Before the battery was dead, if it sat for about 10 minutes, it would start right up, no surging, but as soon as I put a load on it, nothing.

It's got new plugs, new condenser, and new points. Seemingly has the original starter, generator, and coil.

The carburetor looks to have not been off in years, and my first thought is that there's something clogged up in the carb.

Any ideas where I should look first?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

New fuel filter then once running and warm hold at fast idle and run 1/2 can of carb cleaner thru it ,if still not right use a dwell meter to set points should be some around 28-32 degrees . You did not mention if it smokes at all and if so what color is the smoke ? also check oil level and color ? does the radiator fluid have any color or oil in it ? Old gas tractors are very easy to fix could be just sticky valves and just needs to run . Change it over to 12 volt and you will have less problems

 

[jmcgill89]

How would I run the carb cleaner through it? Just in the tank? I put some seafoam in there, but it didn't seem to help.

No smoke at all, unless it's flooded and then I get a tiny puff of white when it first kicks over. Antifreeze looks good, no oil in it. Oil looks perfect.

I did end up bending the copper fuel line a bit when I changed out the leaky shut off valve..could it be too close to the manifold and boiling the gas before it gets to the carb?

 

[Soundguy]

copper fuel line? danger will robinson.. copper vibrates and work hardens. pretty soon you have a open fuel line dumping onthe manifold. no more tractor problems.

sounds like classic fuel starvation.

put it under load and tug on choke a bit. does it even out a lil.? go thru the fuel system including float valve and all jets

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Use a can of spray carb cleaner with the air cleaner off move throttle by hand to keep it running while spraying cleaner into carb , it will smoke like crazy for a minute or two but will clear right up . place a piece of sheet metal between the fuel line and manifold a bent can is better than nothing if its that close ,is the fuel line leaking ? it would have to be less than an inch away to worry about it boiling the fuel which I doubt . post a couple of pictures they truly are worth a thousand words .

 

[jmcgill89]

The fuel line may not be copper but its a malleable metal. It's not touching the manifold but it runs through that tight space.

I'll give the choke idea and the can of cleaner idea a shot. Thanks guys.

I wish I had pics but its 2 hours away on my property.

 

[Soundguy]

that is the oem location of the line if it is run under the intake side of themanifold. should be fine there..

 

[jmcgill89]

Where is the fuel filter that was mentioned? Is it the one in the carburetor?

 

[Dollar Bill]

You should have a screen in the sediment bulb - Not sure but there also may be one in the tank.

 

[Dale Pendell]

Sounds like you need to get inside the carb and clean it or replace some worn parts. Rebuild kits are available for $40 or so and it's fairly easy to work on. I would first be sure you're getting a good steady flow of gas to the carb, then go from there...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Agree you should have a good flow if you remove the line going into the carb when a helper opens the tank shut off. If not then learn why. If the flow is good then you could just let it run for 30 minutes at a time with Sea Foam mixed about 4oz per gallon of fresh gas and do it once a day for several days and see if the dying goes away when you put it in gear. A carb rebuild would not hurt anything if you clean everything well while it is open and expect that would be a good move if you plan to keep it for a while. We have whacked the carb on the side with a 2x4 to shake loose a float that was hanging. The objective is not to bust anything however.

Keep us posted. The tractor will be handy when you get it running well.

 

[jmcgill89]

I just replaced the fuel valve under the tank and I know I have good fuel flow. I know I had to "finesse" the fuel line back into its proper place when I did the valve replacement. I eventually got it something close to right. I have read many threads about these Ford tractors boiling the fuel in particular the crap we have nowadays with ethanol. I worry that's what was happening but after I let the tractor sit for 35 minutes and it started back up it was still not right and I know it wasn't hot enough to be boiling the gas in the line.

I'm going to get a carb kit, charge the battery up and try some of these other tricks. I'm sure it'll be running well in no time.

 

[Cbrown9064]

I have an 861, fuel line routed stock through manifold and no problems with "boiling" fuel. Most fuel problems are due to a restriction somewhere. It seems yours is also, as the problem is still evident after "cool down".

1--Do you have good fuel flow at the end of the line when you take it off the carb?

2--Do you have good fuel flow with the drain removed on the bottom of the carb?

If Yes on both, then I would think you have a restriction in the carb. Get a kit and clean everything well. Visit a local auto or boat shop and see if they have a bucket of that nasty carb cleaner they would soak your carb in. I cannot remember the name of that stuff, but you did not want to stick your hand in it. It did a good job of cleaning out the oil left behind in 2 stroke carbs...

Otherwise get a few cans of carb cleaner and blow it through every passage.

Usually a surge like you are describing is a lean condition (lack of fuel). So troubleshoot that...

Chris

 

[jmcgill89]

Chris,

Yes to 1 and 2. I'm going to get a carb kit, and rebuild it. I actually own one of those buckets of "stuff" to soak parts in, so I'll be doing that.

Quick question: Which carburetor do I have on this thing? It's the original carb, (Marvel-Schebler). I'm looking, but there seems to be a number of different model numbers for the carburetors listed on both eBay and Yesterday's tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

Where is the fuel filter that was mentioned? Is it the one in the carburetor?

should be one in the tank, one in the sed bulb as well..

 

[Soundguy]

all you need to know is large carb or small carb.. as that's the carb gasket. most of the kits rebuild all the models for that size.. extra seats etc.

check fuel flow THRU carb drain... not just TO carb

Chris,

Yes to 1 and 2. I'm going to get a carb kit, and rebuild it. I actually own one of those buckets of "stuff" to soak parts in, so I'll be doing that.

Quick question: Which carburetor do I have on this thing? It's the original carb, (Marvel-Schebler). I'm looking, but there seems to be a number of different model numbers for the carburetors listed on both eBay and Yesterday's tractor.

 

[jmcgill89]

I emptied the bowl on the carb once, but not with the fuel valve open. I will try that when I head back to the land on Friday.

I know the filter is ok at the tank, but I'm sure the sediment bulb is probably at least somewhat clogged. I'll just take it all off, blow some carb cleaner through the unit, and put the quick rebuild kit in.

I'd have been happy if I would have had internet at the property.....Soundguy's choke tip might have been enough to get the tractor moving, at least.

 

[jmcgill89]

Quick update.

I went out to my property on Friday and worked on the 850. Turns out I DID NOT have good fuel flow into the carburetor. I took the fuel line off the carburetor, and only got a trickle of fuel out. Luckily I had a can of compressed air with me, and I was able to blow some air through the line, and got it flowing really well. After that, the tractor started right up and I was able to get the bush hog running until it clogged again like 5 minutes later. I then did the same procedure, and it worked longer...I was able to make a few passes with the bush hog and get it back into the shed. I was happy. I'm thinking I did some damage to the new fuel valve when I installed it. When I get it all taken out this winter, I'll make sure I replace the valve again.

 

[Soundguy]

probably the screen plugged up.. or a bit of trash in the valve..

 

[FarmHan]

what is the correct setting of the dwell on an 850 ford tractor?