Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?

[John0829]

Not really sure the purpose of those rubber pieces, I do know mine does not have them and I have had no issues of any kind and hold REALLY good oil pressure. As far as oil flow once the hole fills with oil from the pump it should be no different than if the rubber pieces were in there so it is not something I would be concerned with. A little sealer will keep it from leaking if that is a concern.

 

[fordcomanche]

John-your seal instructions were great!
It took me quite a while as I kept second guessing myself on getting the seal protrusion correct, and then it initially felt like crank might be in a bind, so I had the crank in and out several times checking. But everything feels good and mains are all torqued to 100ftlbs.

Its time for those side seal strips now. I was wondering whether it would be good to put some of the soft permatex on the ends and temporarily push them into the slots. Let the permatex get tacky, and then soak strips in oil and install them.
I saw one video where they only used gasket sealer and filled the entire slot cavity but seems like it would be preferable to use the strips, just with some sealer on the ends, whatcha think?

 

[John0829]

NO! do not do anything to the side seals, they are designed to swell when they come in contact with oil. Slide them in dry just make sure you get them all the way in, I seem to always have a problem getting them completely seated and usually go through a set or two before I get them right. Don't know why I have problems with them I just do. OH and before I forget there should also be two small "nails" for lack of a better description that you drive into the center of the side seals once you have them seated. Make sure they are centered and use a small/tiny punch to completely seat the pins.

Glad you got the main seals in, the crank will seem a bit tight compared to the way it would feel using a rubber seal. It takes a bit of a touch to get them right but once you do they will last.

 

[fordcomanche]

NO! do not do anything to the side seals, they are designed to swell when they come in contact with oil. Slide them in dry just make sure you get them all the way in, I seem to always have a problem getting them completely seated and usually go through a set or two before I get them right.

Thanks John, glad I waited to hear from you!
I checked the side seals dry and they seemed like they were a little short (they didnt really protrude above the bearing cap). I wasnt sure if they would also swell enough in length to fill this.
I did notice that even though they were mostly loose, they tended to grab somewhere in the slot before fully bottoming out, so guessing I really need to make sure they go in past that spot quickly after they are oil soaked.

Yes, regarding the rear main seal, as you mentioned I think the extra drag I was feeling was from the rope seal vs the rubber seal. It was bothering me as I was initially tightening the caps. I may have had the rope seal a little too proud above the bearing the first times. After I gradually worked the caps down a few times and the rope seal got fully formed evenly around the crankshaft, it felt much better!

 

[John0829]

If the side seals do not come up flush with the bottom of the cap then a tiny bit of #1 or #2 Permatex or even RTV to fill the gap is fine. Just be sure they are fully inserted and bottoming out. Your correct they always seem to grab before they get fully seated, these give me more trouble than any rope ever did.

Just remember no oil until after you are sure they are fully bottomed out.

 

[John0829]

No word for a while now, do you have it running ???

 

[fordcomanche]

Sorry that I haven't posted any updates for a while.
I had a little mishap while trying to load an old school heavy plow into truck bed by myself (which I no longer recommend! ).
I had set the 3pt hitch end of plow up onto truck tailgate and was lifting the plow end with a long pry pole when it shifted on the tailgate and slid off the pry bar.
I jumped back to miss the falling plow blade but a half second later, the 3pt hitch end of the plow also fell from tailgate..directly onto my other foot. Needless to say I wasn't happy about that. So I'm now wearing the "metal boot" for several weeks...

Prior to that, was making progress on the motor.

• Put new valves, guides, seals, springs in head and its ready to go.
• Pistons & rings all installed and rod brgs checked w/plastigage.
• I reused and torqued the original rod nuts, and not planning on putting any Pal-nuts unless you recommend otherwise.

The original Oil pump clearance between gears was visibly excessive (and with feeler gauge). The spring also was weaker than the other used pump I had. I wanted to start out with the best possible oil pressure, so ordered an oil pump rebuild kit.
When it arrived, kit was missing ALL the gaskets and oil pump spring!!!. Vendor sent another kit with all the parts but lost about 2wks on the turnaround time.

Hopefully I can get it back together soon.

 

[John0829]

Sorry to hear about the foot but a sore foot is better than it could have been.

I threw the PAL nuts away on mine, a properly torqued nut is gonna stay put. Sounds like you have my luck when dealing with vendors, if something is wrong or messed up I get it. Other than major gaskets, like head gaskets, I keep an assortment of gasket material/papers on hand so I can and do cut many.

Anyway, I was semi-lucky, my oil pump everything was in spec but it was showing a bit of wear on the bottom plate, that was cleaned up with a piece of glass and sandpaper. My PIA was the relief spring checked out OK but when the engine was first started the pressure was lower than I wanted so I dropped the pan and added a shim to the spring. That fixed my pressure.

Take care of the foot...

 

[fordcomanche]

Thanks John,
Since I still had the oil pump out, I tried your tip using the glass plate to clean up the oil pump gear plate.
I used some 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper with a glass door piece I had on hand and it worked very well.

Here's some before/after pics. The original scratches/grooves could be easily be felt but after using the glass plate, they could hardly be detected with fingernail even though they were still slightly visible.

Next step is to get the camshaft timing gear installed on the new cam. The new cam is the snap ring type for the cam gear and they say to heat it in oil before install, but no mention of temperature.
I tried heating it in a pan of oil but it still seemed extremely tight.
The crank gear went back on fine with no trouble, but would like to hear if you have any tips for getting the new cam gear installed.

Thanks

 

[John0829]

My oil pump plate looked a lot like that when I tore it down, you should now be good to go with yours.

Cam gear, one word "Press" I never had much luck with the hot oil thing. I have heard of folks using a piece of pipe and a BFH but I don't like beating on things especially if they are machined parts.

One thing you might try is version of the trick used for installing dry sleeves. Put the cam in your freezer for a few days to make sure it is thoroughly cold, put the cam gear in your wifes oven ( yeah I know a dangerous move ) heat the gear to 450 or better for at least 30 minutes. The gear should slide on easily, the problem is getting both pieces next to each other without the cold one warming any or the hot one cooling.

The press is the easy, safest way.