Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?

   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Just wanted to post a quick update, progress has been slow with the holidays.
Parts are trickling in, some took 2-3 weeks to arrive. I now have new rings, new lifters, and other parts but havent taken anything to machine shop yet, partly due to their holiday schedule.

I'm planning to order new valve springs as these did have some rust pitting. I was trying to buy a name brand like Mellling, Clevite, or Perfect Circle (instead of the other off-brands.)

NAPA had the Melling locally, but when I double checked the size specs vs the original Ford spring EAA6513A, it showed completely different spring dimensions and PSI spring pressure.

My ford book showed closed pressure 54-62lbs and Open pressure 124-140 lbs.
I had a pdf copy of Clevite's catalog and its the only one that matched ford specs. The Clevite 212-1039 spring specs matched ford exactly.
But Melling and others that are supposed to be same, showed closed 75lbs and Open 164lbs as well as some dimensional differences.
Has anyone run into this? Was there an "upgrade" over the years or perhaps the cross ref numbers arent crossing over properly?

Thanks
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #22  
Glad to hear your progress. I've never looked at cross referancing valve springs,just ordered by application. The same valve used on various engines would have different open/closed psi according to cam lift,rocker ratio and such. Compariosons would need to be for "compressed height".
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
  • Thread Starter
#23  
Well, its hard to believe that it is now March and I just got my engine block & head from the shop! Now Hopefully I can get it put back together.
I dropped it off in back in early January, since I needed to have the flywheel machined, I figured I would get the block and head chemical cleaned for the flood/rust and have them install new valve guides and grind valve seats. Originally they said 1-2wks but then more manpower issues and parts issues...

I noticed when I picked it up that they had replaced the oil galley plugs on the front and rear of the engine block near the camshaft.
Here's some pics of original slotted plugs and the new socket head plugs.

I dont have a closeup pic of the rear plug--Should these just be regular plugs or did either of these have an orifice hole for oiling gears?
There is an oil hole in the block near front crank/camshaft gears but I dont see this hole near the rear gear, only a drain hole in the bottom of the gear cavity
I was wondering how the hydraulic pump drive gears on rear of camshaft are getting lubrication?

Thanks!
 

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   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #24  
They should be plugs, no orifice, the pump gear lubrication is from what comes pass the cam and its bore in the block. Like you I would have thought they would have put a small orifice to provide lubrication for that gear and one in the front for the governor.
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
  • Thread Starter
#25  
Thanks John,
That puts my mind at ease, I was so worried it was going to be some special unobtainable orifice. Now I can get back to some reassembly:)
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
  • Thread Starter
#26  
I had to clean up the crankshaft again but I'm about ready to put it in and check bearing clearance w/plastigauge.
I was also looking at the new rear main seal that came with the rebuild gasket kit that I purchased a few years ago. The seal in the kit is the old style rope type seal.

But I see that there is now a Fel-Pro rear main seal set BS6141-3 that uses a rubber seal for shaft and rubber side seals.

The old crankshaft seal area doesn't have any bad wear grooves or anything but it just isn't smooth like the bearing journals, wondering which seal would work best seal on old shaft.-Do you have experience or preference with the new type seal vs the old rope seal?

Thanks
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #27  
I personally prefer the rope seal BUT ya gotta know how to do it right to prevent leaks. I have actually had more problems getting the little side seals for the cap leaking than I ever had with the ropes. As a note my SIL used the newer style on his when he rebuilt it and has a leak. Not sure if it is the main or the sides, he keeps putting off splitting the tractor again.
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Thanks John,
Theres definitely something to be said for the longevity of the rope seal. Until the tractor got flooded, it had over 40yrs of service on it and the rope seal installed by the Ford dealer in the 1970 rebuild never had any leaks.
Would you be willing to share some of your tips on getting the rope seal installed? :) I think the last time I put one in was on an old 53 Chevy 6 cyl truck motor in the early 1980s so I'm definitely rusty on procedure.

Thanks
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9? #29  
First thing is soak the rope in oil, one of the biggest mistakes made by folks is failing to soak the rope. When installing it in the block compress the rope as much as possible while pushing it into the channel of the block, I like to use a large socket to help roll it in place, this is where having three hands would be nice. Once it is rolled in correctly it should be tight and just slightly proud of the installed bearing insert, trim the ends leaving it about 1/8 to 3/16 long. I put a VERY thin coat of grease or assembly lube on the surface of the rope, to help keep it from getting burned before oil gets to it, then put the crankshaft in place, ( of course you should have already checked clearances with plasti-gage before installing the rope seal ). When putting the crank in I like to, not drop it but put it with authority and then look to be sure there is good contact between the crank and the rope. Once the crankshaft is in place gently press/tamp the ends to compress them some and yet still have just a bit show above the block surface.

The bearing cap you install the rope seal the same except the ends are trimmed flush, then I put the smallest touch of #2 Permatex on the ends before bolting on the cap. I torque the cap in 3 or 4 steps, turning the crank between each step.

I have (knock on wood) not had a rope seal leak doing it this way, it was taught to me, way back when, by an old mechanic when I started turning wenches for a living. Getting the right compression is key to using rope.
 
   / Ford 800 172 engine sleeves--Overbore or Std 3.9?
  • Thread Starter
#30  
John,
Thank you very much for your excellent write up on the rope seal installation!

I will be picking up some #2 permatex this afternoon and start prepping for the seal install.
Completed the plastigage check on the mains, all 3 bearings were very slightly under .003".

While cleaning oil passages, I noticed that in the 3 cam bearing bores (where the drilled passages go to the exterior side of block), the front and rear bores are missing the little rubber seals inside the holes.

I've seen mention of these missing on several tractor forums but usually their discussion was about external oil leaks.
My exterior metal plugs are in place and I did not had any external leaks around these prior to teardown. The center cam bearing bore still had the rubber seal in place behind the exterior bolt.

Since that middle bearing seal was sitting flush with the inside of the cam bearing bore, I was wondering whether these seals are also meant to prevent these extra oil cavities from adversely affecting oil circulation to the cam.
The book shows part no's EAA66025A (plug) and EAF66045A (seal). From checking prices on these, they seem to be very proud of these!o_O

Thanks again for the rope seal info!

Camshaft exterior oil plug (3).jpg
Camshaft exterior oil plug (2).jpg
Camshaft exterior oil plug (5).jpg
Camshaft exterior oil plug (1).jpg
 
 
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