3-Point Hitch Ford 5000 Rear PTO spins even when not engaged

[tcweb]

Hello, I've searched the forums, and can't seem to find a similar post, but please let me know if I missed something.

When I disengage the PTO on my ford5000 (rear, running an 84" landpride brushhog), the PTO shaft still spins, although slower.
You can clearly hear it spin up when you engage it. My guess is that this can be adjusted, but I'm kind of new to PTO in general.

Is the rear PTO controlled by a clutch, or is it hydraulic?

I can live with it as-is, but I'm sure it's a safety issue, and it would be nice to know that the massive blades aren't spinning when I disengage the PTO.

Love this tractor, it is a workhorse!

Thanks,

-Tom

 

[RickB]

Your PTO clutch is an Hydraulically engaged multiple wet disc style clutch. Depending on the built date of your 5000, the PTO brake is an hydraulically engaged pawl or brake band. Either your pawl is worn out, or your brake band is broken. Again, depending on your build date, the repair will require removal of the lift cover or a rear split to access the clutch.

 

[tylertown]

The tractor in the picture looks about a 71 or 72 I just went through this mine has a non adjustable shoe style brake the band didn't start until 72 or 73 later I think...
Most likley your snap ring has come out of your clutch pack and it allowed the main spring to not have enough force on the piston in the clutch pack to press the fluid back out when u disengage it so that means the fluid is staying in for longer keeping the clutch discs togeather and causing it to continue to spin after you disengage it.

I have pictures if u need them.

Take lift cover off and under the draft control the bracket that you hook your top link to, fold it down remove that cover and slide the shaft out the back of the tractor and remove the screw by your left foot step with the nut and when u take it out I bet the spring has pushed the snap ring an thrust washer into the clutch hub.

 

[tylertown]

that's the spring that supposed to be still in the clutch pack.

If this is a newer style with the band you can take the lift cover off and adjust it from the top to apply drag. But I'd pill the clutch pack first and make sure it hasn't come apart because then adjusting it would be pointless.
Let me know if you need anything further. (Be careful with the lift cover. Get a shop crane it's HEAVY)

 

[ovrszd]

Good information guys!!!!!

Definitely use a "lift" of some kind for the 3pt cover. I removed mine by hand but used a cherry picker to put it back. Heavy and awkward.

 

[RickB]

The tractor in the picture looks about a 71 or 72 I just went through this mine has a non adjustable shoe style brake the band didn't start until 72 or 73 later I think...
Most likley your snap ring has come out of your clutch pack and it allowed the main spring to not have enough force on the piston in the clutch pack to press the fluid back out when u disengage it so that means the fluid is staying in for longer keeping the clutch discs togeather and causing it to continue to spin after you disengage it.

I have pictures if u need them.

Take lift cover off and under the draft control the bracket that you hook your top link to, fold it down remove that cover and slide the shaft out the back of the tractor and remove the screw by your left foot step with the nut and when u take it out I bet the spring has pushed the snap ring an thrust washer into the clutch hub.

Nothing in that picture identifies that 5000 as anything other than one with late style sheet metal. If you think it's a 71 but not a 74, I'd like for you to tell us why.

 

[tylertown]

Nothing in that picture identifies that 5000 as anything other than one with late style sheet metal. If you think it's a 71 but not a 74, I'd like for you to tell us why.

RickB I don't want to be a jack@$$ please don't take it that way, your correct the sheet metal is of a later model tractor.

Look at the hub and hub cap the cap is not cast iron like the later models, with a thicker hub flange. The early model also has lug nut studs with a flat spot on them so they dont spin when puttin lug nuts on or taking them off. Later models late 72 and up had splined lug nut studs. If had been replaced why would they put an early hub on a late tractor when the later parts are more avaliable

f you look under the foot rest there is no spin on hydraulic return filter (early model design.) It's inside the rear-end. That's your main sign that by having new sheet metal and no spin on filter it's between the change dates 71 or 72. If I am wrong I'll say it.

Again not wanting an argument just telling you what I know tends to set the years apart by appearance

 

[tcweb]

It’s a 1972, actually. (I was given incorrect information from the original owner)

 

[tcweb]

long time since I first posted this...I really want to get back to addressing the issue. Does this require splitting the tractor, or can it be done easier?
Sorry the pics above are helpful, but I'm not sure exactly how to go about checking the spring and re-seating (or replacing it) if needed.

-Tom

 

[tcweb]

View attachment 526754 that's the spring that supposed to be still in the clutch pack.

If this is a newer style with the band you can take the lift cover off and adjust it from the top to apply drag. But I'd pill the clutch pack first and make sure it hasn't come apart because then adjusting it would be pointless.
Let me know if you need anything further. (Be careful with the lift cover. Get a shop crane it's HEAVY)

I know that my clutch is getting worn - need to really push it all the way down to keep a few gears from grinding when going into gear. I only put 50-60 hours per year on it, so I've been hesitant to do the clutch until it really needs it.

So please forgive my ignorance, but...how much of my tractor would I need to take apart to check what you mention here?

 

[tcweb]

Also, I'm pretty good with fixing things...and I have an engine hoist, and a ton of tooling, so I'm not afraid to tackle a tractor split, but having never done it...could use some advice and guidance.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I know that my clutch is getting worn - need to really push it all the way down to keep a few gears from grinding when going into gear. I only put 50-60 hours per year on it, so I've been hesitant to do the clutch until it really needs it.

So please forgive my ignorance, but...how much of my tractor would I need to take apart to check what you mention here?

Lift top.

 

[fishheadbob]

If the implement doesn't turn when the pto is not engaged there's a much easier option for safety purposes. That year 5000 should have threads around the pto shaft output on the tractor body where you can screw on the metal pto cover that came with the tractor. Of course that cover got lost about 1979 and if a New Holland dealer had one it would be a zillion dollars. Maybe not, those things were made for decades and were probably "one size fits all" generics.
If the implement does turn when the pto is disengaged you gotta get into more serious repair work.
From your other thread; go to tractor supply and buy a new top link for your three point hitch. Maybe $40, buy the heavier model. Your time is better spent than trying to save $10 in an attempt to cobble something together that won't ever work quite right. It's a 45 year old tractor for Pete's sake. It's going to need a new part every 10 or 20 years.

 

[tcweb]

If the implement doesn't turn when the pto is not engaged there's a much easier option for safety purposes. That year 5000 should have threads around the pto shaft output on the tractor body where you can screw on the metal pto cover that came with the tractor. Of course that cover got lost about 1979 and if a New Holland dealer had one it would be a zillion dollars. Maybe not, those things were made for decades and were probably "one size fits all" generics.
If the implement does turn when the pto is disengaged you gotta get into more serious repair work.
From your other thread; go to tractor supply and buy a new top link for your three point hitch. Maybe $40, buy the heavier model. Your time is better spent than trying to save $10 in an attempt to cobble something together that won't ever work quite right. It's a 45 year old tractor for Pete's sake. It's going to need a new part every 10 or 20 years.

I have that cap, yes. If I can sell it to any of you for a zillion dollars, I’m all for that.

Honestly I believe the made in China crap they sell today can be more work (and time) than repairing parts from my 45 year old Ford.

That’s the real reason.

 

[tcweb]

OK, I'm reviving my old thread, since I have purchased the gasket and rebuild kit for the lift cover.

I want to make sure I have the steps to pull it apart identified.

1) remove the seat (tips on getting in there? Not much room)

2) remove the hydraulic remote assembly

3) Remove the pin holding the top link arm

4) On both left and right, remove the pins holding the lower 3pt arms to the lift cover arms
5) remove all 13 bolts holding the lift cover in place

6) use engine hoist and straps to lift the cover off <--anything else need disconnected from the inside before completely removing?


I purchased the entire lift cover rebuild kit, but not sure what I'll find when I have it off. If any o-rings look warn or damaged, I'll replace them. My main goal is to troubleshoot the PTO spinning, when not engaged. Any tips for where to start?


Thanks in advance.

 

[tcweb]

The tractor in the picture looks about a 71 or 72 I just went through this mine has a non adjustable shoe style brake the band didn't start until 72 or 73 later I think...
Most likley your snap ring has come out of your clutch pack and it allowed the main spring to not have enough force on the piston in the clutch pack to press the fluid back out when u disengage it so that means the fluid is staying in for longer keeping the clutch discs togeather and causing it to continue to spin after you disengage it.

I have pictures if u need them.

Take lift cover off and under the draft control the bracket that you hook your top link to, fold it down remove that cover and slide the shaft out the back of the tractor and remove the screw by your left foot step with the nut and when u take it out I bet the spring has pushed the snap ring an thrust washer into the clutch hub.

Tylertown...I know it's been a while but...PICs would be super helpful. Mine is a '72. I was told (incorrectly) by the original owner that it was a '70. But for sure it's '72.

-Tom