ford 1700 hydraulics

[fldoghunter]

sorry for the double post. I posted this in the hydraulics forum with no response. Figured I'd try here.

First let me say that this is my brothers tractor. I borrow it from time to time to mow our (mine and his)hunting property. I'm working on it because I'm more motivated to get it done and I need it in a month.

Last time I went to borrow it, we couldn't get the hydraulics to work. Searching on here gave me the idea to check the filter screen and sure enough, it was clogged. We cleaned it and changed the oil and it seemed to work fine around the house. When I got it to the property, it worked fine when cool, but once it got hot, it didn't work right. When I set it where I wanted it, it would leak down and be scalping. When i tried to pick it up, it wouldn't come up immediately, but it would eventually come up until it wouldn't. I put it on the trIler by jacking the mower up with a come-along.

That was a couple months ago. We changed the oil and checked the screen again (not clogged) and now we cant get it to do anything. Hot or cold, it won't even try. I can pick up the lift arms by hand with no resistance at all.

I did a search here and found a list of things to try and will start trying to figure it out this week. The one thing that the symptoms seem to point to is the lift piston seal, so I figured since it was cheap, I'd go ahead and get one headed this way. With this covid crap, I don't really want to wait to see if that's what I need and not get it in time. The problem is, I can't find exactly what seal it is I need to order. Googling shows lift piston seals, but not for a ford 1700.

Anybody have a link or a part #?

Thanks

 

[kirkawilson]

Messicks shows some seals under the "Hydraulics" folder here; New Holland (17) - 2 CYL COMPACT TRACTOR (1/79-12/82) Parts Diagrams They are also good about advising if you call them.

 

[fldoghunter]

Thank you sir. I'll do that

 

[square1]

Put the new seal in a pan if hot! (not quite boiling) water to get it on the plunger/ piston. Let it cool before putting the cylinder back on.

 

[JC-jetro]

it is the seal more than likely. I had a complete tutorial with pics on how to do it. unfortunately the picture hosting company started removing my pics as they wanted monthly maintenance fee. Messick's does have the seal but now it is more expensive many years ago when I bought from New Holland dealer that I used to have near by. Boiling water is one way, but I elected to put teh seal in the plastic bag,leave it in the sun while I removed the lift cylinder head. Do oil it liberally and it is a one time shot to put it right. once is in in reverse you cannot take it out without damage. It is a double lipped seal and the lips need to be toward hyd pressure. Let me see if I can dig up some pics,

Jc,

 

[fldoghunter]

Well, it doesn't seem to be the seal. Took all that apart and the seal looked good and the piston is tight in the cylinder. Looked in the hole while I had the cylinder out and the linkage seemed to work as it should. Before i took it all apart, i removed the plug where yall are installing a gauge. When i cranked the tractor, fluid seem to flow fine. Not loads of pressure, but it is a big hole.

Going to see if i can find a gauge locally tomorrow. If not I'll order one. Have a pretty good parts house in town, also a Napa and a Rural King. Also going to re read the links and figure out what else to try.

Will keep yall updated. Thanks.

 

[JC-jetro]

Well, it doesn't seem to be the seal. Took all that apart and the seal looked good and the piston is tight in the cylinder. Looked in the hole while I had the cylinder out and the linkage seemed to work as it should. Before i took it all apart, i removed the plug where yall are installing a gauge. When i cranked the tractor, fluid seem to flow fine. Not loads of pressure, but it is a big hole.

Going to see if i can find a gauge locally tomorrow. If not I'll order one. Have a pretty good parts house in town, also a Napa and a Rural King. Also going to re read the links and figure out what else to try.

Will keep yall updated. Thanks.

Ok , check the check ball, and spring. If it is stuck open by debries it will bypass the fluid back to the diffy just passed the lift cyllinder. The purpose of it is to dump, bleed off the pressure when you have a heaving implement on the 3 point and you are driving in a rough terrain. As you hit a bump the lift piston pressure elevates due to kinematic energy caused by the wight hanging in he back.

JC,

 

[fldoghunter]

Pulled the check ball and spring all looked good and clean. Cranked the tractor with it out and worked the lever while it was running. No fluid came out at all. Went back to the relief valve by where the hydrolic line comes in. Pulled it to make sure I had put it back together right. While I had it out, I cranked the tractor. Fluid gushed out. Prolly spit out a quart to a half gallon before I could get it shut off. Pump seems to be pumping good, granted there was no head pressure.

If I unscrew the plug where you're putting the gauge, crank the tractor and move the lever, shouldn't the rate of flow change if the valve it working correctly? I cranked it before and oil came out, but I didnt work the lever. It seems that should test the valve and eliminate everything but the pump?

 

[fldoghunter]

I pulled the plug where you have a gauge. I cranked the tractor and had it running around 1500 rpm. No fluid coming out no matter how I moved the lever. Ran the rpms all the way up (about 2550) and have flow coming out the hole. It increases when I lift the lever and decreases when I lower it, so the valve is doing something. I expected it to stop when I lowered the lever all the way, but it didn't. I reinstalled the plug and cranked it again. At about 1500 rpms the lift still wouldn't do anything. When i ran it on up and worked the lever, the lift came up pretty quick. Then I lowered it and it went down. Then nothing, same as before. It did go up and down 1 time. Dont know if that's getting somewhere or not.

Going to head to town and try to find a gauge. Not sure if its needed now for diagnostic purposes or not, but would be nice to have if I can ever get this thing fixed.

In my simple mind, it seems to be pointing to the pump. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[JC-jetro]

I pulled the plug where you have a gauge. I cranked the tractor and had it running around 1500 rpm. No fluid coming out no matter how I moved the lever. Ran the rpms all the way up (about 2550) and have flow coming out the hole. It increases when I lift the lever and decreases when I lower it, so the valve is doing something. I expected it to stop when I lowered the lever all the way, but it didn't. I reinstalled the plug and cranked it again. At about 1500 rpms the lift still wouldn't do anything. When i ran it on up and worked the lever, the lift came up pretty quick. Then I lowered it and it went down. Then nothing, same as before. It did go up and down 1 time. Dont know if that's getting somewhere or not.

Going to head to town and try to find a gauge. Not sure if its needed now for diagnostic purposes or not, but would be nice to have if I can ever get this thing fixed.

In my simple mind, it seems to be pointing to the pump. Hope I'm wrong.

all very good observation, nothing stupid here. two things the pump might have lost it's pumping capacity some, pump has an internal relif. it is very little. But majorly I think your spring on the relief is set too stiff since you actually have flow at higher rpm. Guge is good to have to see at max rpm what you get at the guage. That basicallt tell you stiffness and presssure associated by that. Go ahead and back out the adjustment to reduce spring stiffness and see where you are and report back. I will go ahead and post some pump's innards pics FYSA.

JC,