Ford 1700, any help?

[JB4310]

No I did not buy it yet, I was off on the hours , actual hours is 2520, didn't try to start it yet, battery is stone dead so I don't think I can jump that one, I'll have to get another one, the tractor ran when parked so I don't think the engine would be locked, I'll will get some fresh fuel.
What safeties do I need to know about, seat, clutch, pto? do you need glow plugs in warm weather? what is glow plug side, to the left?
thanks for the help, here are some pix

 

[JC-jetro]

No I did not buy it yet, I was off on the hours , actual hours is 2520, didn't try to start it yet, battery is stone dead so I don't think I can jump that one, I'll have to get another one, the tractor ran when parked so I don't think the engine would be locked, I'll will get some fresh fuel.
What safeties do I need to know about, seat, clutch, pto? do you need glow plugs in warm weather? what is glow plug side, to the left?
thanks for the help, here are some pix

Pictures look good. If the tractor is mechanically sound then I think it is a great bargain. I have seen 1700 with 4000 hrs on them that run great. obviously how a tractor is used or abused has a lot to do with it.There is no safety for the seat or PTO that I know of for my 1700. the rest of safeties I try to explain below.

Glow plug:

On the right side of the engine below the injector. Once you put the key in glow plug mode, turning the key CCW for about 30 degrees and keep it held for # of seconds to fire the heaters. You should be able to read voltage when pre-heating. Unless the engine is hot using glow plug is helpful getting the diesel engine to start. Obviously, most of us know that the ignition in diesel starts with the heat of compression and heated element in the chamber can help initial ignition a lot. I can get mine to start in the summer without glow plug but have to crank several times. Glow plugging for 20 seconds and she starts right up every time.

Clutch safety: It assures that the clutch is depressed before you can turn the engine over. In other word you will not have the tractor lunge forward upon starting. In neutal gear you still have to push the clutch in. it is a digital normally open momentary switch that closes and completes the starer circuit.

Temp safety: It is located on the left of the engine close to oil fill for the engine. It is a an analog sensor of resistive type. Key in on position and the idiot light should turn on enabling voltage reading at the terminal. With the key in on position (not starting position that is to the right of on position) the heat indicator needle should read low and as engine warms up should move up by lowering the resistance in the sensor due to engine heat. Make sure you do not keep the key in 12 o'clock after the engine started as the temp will read high as if you overheated the engine. At that point the charging system of tractor will not work as well. That gave me some grief to figure it out.

Oil safety: It is located on the right side next to the dip stick. it is more of spring loaded analog sensor that is normally closed by spring pressure indicating no oil pressure and illumination of red idiot light. Upon engine start the oil pressure keeps the sensor closed against the spring ,cutting the current to the idiot light and sign of good oil flow..

JC

 

[JB4310]

Thanks for those descriptive pics, that should take alot of the guess work out of trying to start the thing, if the temp or oil pressure sensors are bad it wouldn't prevent the starting circuit to energize would it? those are the glow plugs under the bar under the injectors correct? The guy did tell me it has to really whirl to start it so I'm thinking maybe he's not using glow plugs or they are not glowing, you said the alt needle will drop when the glow plugs are on? are they easy to check? By the time I get to work on it I'll be well prepared as it will be up to me to get the thing going to make sure I want to buy it since the owner is not going to help, so the more I know the easier it will be.
I'm pretty sure I will get it going from what I know about it, I just have to get a good battery, which is a little bit of a commitment since I'll have to buy one, don't have any extras.

 

[JC-jetro]

Thanks for those descriptive pics, that should take alot of the guess work out of trying to start the thing, if the temp or oil pressure sensors are bad it wouldn't prevent the starting circuit to energize would it? those are the glow plugs under the bar under the injectors correct? The guy did tell me it has to really whirl to start it so I'm thinking maybe he's not using glow plugs or they are not glowing, you said the alt needle will drop when the glow plugs are on? are they easy to check? By the time I get to work on it I'll be well prepared as it will be up to me to get the thing going to make sure I want to buy it since the owner is not going to help, so the more I know the easier it will be.
I'm pretty sure I will get it going from what I know about it, I just have to get a good battery, which is a little bit of a commitment since I'll have to buy one, don't have any extras.

You're welcome

Bad sensor such as pressure and heat are not safety stop devices. You would only damage engine if engine overheats or lock up due to lack of lubrication. so the answer is " no" .. with bad sensor you still should be able to start.

The bar is attached to glow plug with an insulated base. When glow plugging if there is a term like that then you should be able to read voltage between connecting wire and any ground(engine). That shows juice is going to the plug but does not mean they work. Now glow plug is basically is a resistive element about the same as your toaster element with no moving part.. they do not go bad that often.

About the needle. if you look at the gauge with engine off he needle reside in the "H" region as if engine is overheating. When you put the key in and turn either left for glow plugging or right to before you get the engine started and at that point the needle moves to "C" cold position. As engine warms up it slowly creeps yp to the middle. In order for charging system and engine oil and temp to work the key has to stay at 2 o'clock and not at 12 o'clock. Engine will continue to run but temp will show"H" and charging system will not work so you'll loose any juice in the battery of you have lights on.

I reckon you can use your car battery to check or jump it with your car as the voltage is 12. Pull starting is also a sure bit if you have a partner to help you.

Good luck and keep us posted. If you need parts of the owner's manual then let me know as I have it scanned.

JC

 

[Soundguy]

I'd like to add.. that on grounding type sensors like many o fthe op and temp sensors, you can use a test lamp to the sensor itself, or an ohm meter.

Ie, pull wire off oil sender, hook test lamp probe up, touch battery hot. With engine off, lamp should light up, once engine started, lamp should go out real fast... etc..

Soundguy

 

[JC-jetro]

I'd like to add.. that on grounding type sensors like many o fthe op and temp sensors, you can use a test lamp to the sensor itself, or an ohm meter.

Ie, pull wire off oil sender, hook test lamp probe up, touch battery hot. With engine off, lamp should light up, once engine started, lamp should go out real fast... etc..

Soundguy

Soundguy,

That's the way I have done as you suggested for simplicity. I had to use my Volt/ohm meter to measure resistance for the temp sending unit when hot and cold. Test light is certainly the best choice to keep it simple and verify circuit continuity.


JC,

 

[JB4310]

Well I ended up buying it today, went down there just to see if it would crank over with a jump and a booster pack and it fired right up, so I just drove it home, about a mile and a half, got half way home in third gear thinking this thing needs another gear for going down the road, well duh there it is (4) man that's a high gear in either range!
Anyway, cleaned it up got a new battery drained some real nasty fuel out of it, changed the oil but not the filter yet, had a little trouble finding the right filter, dealer kept saying they need the unit # for any parts, which I didn't have on me but found later stamped on tranny, they didn't have the filter they thought was the right one regardless, my unit number starts with a "0" does that mean it was built in 1980 or maybe 1990?

Like I said in the beginning I only wanted the rake off this tractor but after fiddling around with it today I almost want to keep it as it is a very capable machine, with that 12/3 tranny it seems like it would be a great ground contact implement puller
JC, I have a few more questions for you,
1. what is oil filter number?
2. what is the proper level of the tranny gear lube? I see the filler and looks low, 1/4 full.
3.What is the little glow plug looking element on the dash in front of the throttle lever? is that supposed to tell you the glow plugs are energized? mine doesn't do anything. when I turn the key to heat, the oil pressure light goes on, is that supposed to be an indicator?
here are some new pics.

 

[JC-jetro]

Well I ended up buying it today, went down there just to see if it would crank over with a jump and a booster pack and it fired right up, so I just drove it home, about a mile and a half, got half way home in third gear thinking this thing needs another gear for going down the road, well duh there it is (4) man that's a high gear in either range!
Anyway, cleaned it up got a new battery drained some real nasty fuel out of it, changed the oil but not the filter yet, had a little trouble finding the right filter, dealer kept saying they need the unit # for any parts, which I didn't have on me but found later stamped on tranny, they didn't have the filter they thought was the right one regardless, my unit number starts with a "0" does that mean it was built in 1980 or maybe 1990?

Like I said in the beginning I only wanted the rake off this tractor but after fiddling around with it today I almost want to keep it as it is a very capable machine, with that 12/3 tranny it seems like it would be a great ground contact implement puller
JC, I have a few more questions for you,
1. what is oil filter number?
2. what is the proper level of the tranny gear lube? I see the filler and looks low, 1/4 full.
3.What is the little glow plug looking element on the dash in front of the throttle lever? is that supposed to tell you the glow plugs are energized? mine doesn't do anything. when I turn the key to heat, the oil pressure light goes on, is that supposed to be an indicator?
here are some new pics.

Well, Congrats .. that's a sweet little tractor for the price with the rake to boot
I see that it is a 2WD rather than 4WD, and that's okay. It is still very capable. For the size of it, it weighs about 2500 LBS with good looking casting and very simple and basic design. I make sure I'll get suitcase weights for the front. They are about $60 for NH dealer.. it's hard to find used ones. Now back to your questions.. If you want all New Holland stuff below is what you need.

Ford Oil filter NH-86546613
Oil Master Gold 15W-40.
Alternator/water pump belt NH-8651498

first time I used the above till I found replacement fram brand that you can even buy at Walmart or most automotive places.

Oil Filter: Fram PH2825
Fuel Filter: Fram CG9271
Oil: Rotella T 15w-40 meeting API CJ4 standard same as NH.
Transmission/ Hydraulic oil : Mystik Universal oil from TSC meets the NH-requirement and SKU# for it is 8030643

If you have advanced auto in your area L444 belt with SKU# 5063272 fits perfectly.
Upper and lower radiator hose with 1-1/2" dia can be bought from Advance auto also, B7163 upper , SKU#15590040 and lower 71718CS with SKU# 5191785 fits almost perfectly and you'll need to trim a bit on either end. I know a guy at advanced auto and he told me go in the back of the store and match what I wanted. They should save you quite a bit.

On the transmission just look at the dipstick marker, it need to be in the middle ...too much oil is not good as it will expand during operation and blows out seals. Search posts started by me in the forum and you'll see how I changed the oil and cleaned the inlet screen. I highly recommend it.

The element in the dash should turn red when the glow plug in the combustion chamber has reached proper temp. The element will glow red..hard to see, cover it by you hand (shade it) and you see it turn red meaning your ready to turn the key to the other side and fire her up.

When the light comes on during glow plugging is indication of proper circuit continuity... that is good. You should see two idiot lifgts ..one for temp and one for oil pressure. Both should turn off after engine is started and running. That is indication of operationa sensing device. temp is analog .. so look at needle.

Now what I would not do is change the oil and keep the filter. it is same as working hard for 8 hrs in the muck.. coming home and taking long warm shower where you feel clean all over and then elect to wear your soild underwear. Yikes... it is forbidden

Again congrats on your purchase. I would not lose the tractor that easy specially when you paid only 2k for it.check it on ine .. you'll be hard pressed to duplicate it.. again provided you don't have major issues lurking in the dark.

JC

 

[JB4310]

once again, Thank You! and I do need the belt, how about the year? also I have no dip stick on tranny filler? the oil pan was over full with the blackest oil I've ever seen so I wanted to dump it, I have alot of oil I inherited so no big deal when I get the filter I'll change it again and it will be like an extra flush.
was going to put it up for sale today but am going to hold off a little while so I can play around with it, so maybe I'll have some more questions/problems.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not provy to all the particulars o fthe 1700.. but if your tranny oil cap is suposed to have a dipstick on it, like my 5000 does.. then when you drain the trans oil.. I'd feel around in the bottom of the oil pan for it... that's where my 5000 dipstick was..

I had to buy a new cap/dipstick... etc.. CNH ordered one for me quick.. etc..

soundguy