flat battery on kubotaL4200

[Luath]

Any advice on a 18 month old battery that's not holding a charge? I recharged the battery, reconnected it, started the engine fine, set the throttle halfway and checked the amps across the battery terminals. Got a reading of over 14 amps so I think that means alternator ok. Glow plug orange light on instrument panel has started to come on and off intermittently and everything else looks/sounds ok. I have run the tractor for a few days (two to three hours at a time without stopping the engine) without trouble then the issue recurs.
Many thanks in advance,
Luath.

 

[Dave M7040]

Tell us how you took the measurement across the battery terminals and with what. Do you mean 14 volts? If so there will be more numbers which are significant such as 14.4.
When you shut the tractor down, remove the ground cable and leave it off until the next use. If it is OK then something is drawing down the battery while it sits.
The glow plug light may be telling you something important and perhaps the glow plugs are drawing power when the tractor is off resulting in a dead battery.
A regular battery which has been run down dead a few times may be finished. They cannot stand to be deeply discharged. Special batteries are made for such use.
Take the battery to a Canadian Tire store and ask them to check it for you to determine if it is still good.
Where in Canada are you?
Dave M7040

 

[Luath]

Hi DaveM7040,

Yep it was volts and today it read 14.4 The battery was fully charged and the tractor ran today for about three hours continuously with the glow plug light coming on and going off intermittently. The battery was disconnected as soon as the tractor was back in the shed and hooked up to the charger which indicated a 90% charge that rose to 100% within an hour. I intend to put it back onto the charger tomorrow to see if there has been any loss.
I'm located south of Owen Sound, Ontario.

Cheers,
Luath

 

[Dave M7040]

Hi DaveM7040,

Yep it was volts and today it read 14.4 The battery was fully charged and the tractor ran today for about three hours continuously with the glow plug light coming on and going off intermittently. The battery was disconnected as soon as the tractor was back in the shed and hooked up to the charger which indicated a 90% charge that rose to 100% within an hour. I intend to put it back onto the charger tomorrow to see if there has been any loss.
I'm located south of Owen Sound, Ontario.

Cheers,
Luath

Luath
If the battery remains charged when disconnected, then the next step would be to remove any fuse or fuses associated with the glow plugs and leave the battery cable on when the tractor is shut down.
Rather than using your charger to determine the condition of the battery after sitting, your volt meter would show you the same info. Dont measure the voltage immediately after the charger has been on the battery as you will receive an incorrectly high reading.
Dave M7040

 

[skyhook]

Luath, you didn't say the size of your battery, how many amps....
but from what you stated, it does appear to be charging, you also have another problem that could be depleting the charge, if i remember correctly, the alternators aren't very strong in their output, I had to upgrade mine.
Your glow plugs take allot of juice and it seems you have a problem with them coming on when not needed,...
check out this older thread for some good advice.
Like Dave stated, also have your battery checked with a load tester etc.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...0208-automatic-glow-plug-operation-l4200.html

 

[Luath]

Hi Dave M7040,
Is it ok to remove all the fuses when the tractor is turned off? and how long should I leave tractor disabled before rechecking the battery? I'm a bit worried that the glow plugs are incorrectly drawing power only when the tractor is running.
Cheers,
Luath.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think you may have found the culprit with the glow plug circuit. Likely it has a timed circuit that is malfunctioning. I would check out that circuit and replace any faulty components. I never liked an electronic gizmo to tell me how long to run the glowplugs anyway. I prefer to just have detent in the switch so I can run them as I see fit to crank then not have them energized when the motor is running. Which reminds me, you could have a short in your ignition switch that is causing you the problems with intermittent glow plug use. Might just need an new ignition switch. I seem to recall this happening to other folks who had stored their Kubotas or was it Kiotis out in the weather and the switches went bad really quickly.

 

[Dave M7040]

Hi Dave M7040,
Is it ok to remove all the fuses when the tractor is turned off? and how long should I leave tractor disabled before rechecking the battery? I'm a bit worried that the glow plugs are incorrectly drawing power only when the tractor is running.
Cheers,
Luath.

Luath
The best time to remove fuses is when there is no current flowing through them such as when the tractor is off.

Investing in a 12 volt test light like this one on Amazon.com would be a useful tool to sort out many electrical issues on tractors, trucks and cars.
Amazon.com: Professional 6-12V Circuit Tester - Indicator Light - Lifetime Warranty: Automotive

With it you could check the glow plugs for voltage, i.e. heating at any time. You just ground the aligator clip on the battery or tractor frame and touch the glow plug wire to see if power is present. Some may correct me and say the switching of the glow plug circuit is on the ground side of the circuit but I dont think so.
Alternatively, an infrared temp tester also from Amazon for less than $40 would let you see if the glow pugs are heating especially if the tractor is off.
Amazon.com: Non Contact Laser Infrared IR Digital LCD Thermometer Tester ｰC ｰF: Automotive

Having a few tools will make future work much more logical.

Dave M7040


.

 

[Luath]

Hi Dave,

I've changed the glow plug relay and the problem persists. I've acquired an infrared thermometer and a circuit tester. I'm guessing the next thing to do is test to see if the glow plugs are heating while the engine is running? The battery is not draining while the engine is off. Could you run me through the procedure?

Cheers Luath

 

[Dave M7040]

Luath
I re read all previous posts. Your last post which states"The battery is not draining while the engine is off," is puzzling me. Was the lack of charge in your battery not the problem you were experiencing?

Using the test light first check some simple things to get some experience with it. Connect the alligator clip to the battery negative terminal and touch the end of the probe to the positive post. The light inside the probe handle should light up. Leave the alligator clip on the negative post and touch the probe to the heavy battery cable on the starter. Again it should light up. Now touch the probe to the electrical terminal on the glow plugs. The light should stay off. Now engage the glow plugs and you should see the probe light come on indicating that power is being supplied to the glow plugs. Start the engine and check for power at the glow plugs. There should not be any and the probe light should be off.

Do this and report back please

Dave M7040

 

[Luath]

Hi Dave,

I think the battery has been draining because of power being drawn by the glow plugs. The orange light on the dashboard comes on intermittently when the tractor is running, it does not light up when I start the tractor in warm weather (the temp in the drive shed is about 25C at the moment) I've tried the tester and it glows as expected across the battery and when hooked up to the starter. No response from any of the four glow plugs when engine off, key turned or engine on. The plugs (unless I'm looking at the wrong components?) have small nuts on top and are joined together by a metal strip that seems to have a coating of plastic insulation between the plugs. I've used the probe at the top of each small nut and further down the plug just above the larger hex nut.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Luath.

 

[Dave M7040]

luath
Next thought would be to connect the alligator clip to one of the small nuts on one of the glow plugs and keep the probe in the tractor with you pressed to a ground such as anything metal. If the light in the probe comes on when the orange light on the dashboard comes on then power is being supplied briefly to the glow plugs. I doubt that you will find this is happen which means a couple of things. One is that the glow plug controller is going bad and Two there is another reason the battery is being drained. A failing alternator can have a failed diode which allows current to flow to ground.
Do this next test and report back
Dave

 

[Dave M7040]

luath
Next thought would be to connect the alligator clip to one of the small nuts on one of the glow plugs and keep the probe in the tractor with you pressed to a ground such as anything metal. If the light in the probe comes on when the orange light on the dashboard comes on then power is being supplied briefly to the glow plugs. I doubt that you will find this is happen which means a couple of things. One is that the glow plug controller is going bad and Two there is another reason the battery is being drained. A failing alternator can have a failed diode which allows current to flow to ground.
Do this next test and report back
Dave

 

[skyhook]

Dave..I think he stated that he has already replaced the glow plug relay.
The ignition switch also sends power to the relay, could be shorting out internally at times, but at that temp, I don't see why the plugs would even turn on.
If you have a "volt meter", ground one end and tap into a live circuit with the other to monitor voltage when the tractor is off and when it's running, with that little alternator, you should be getting around 13 or so volts, running.
You should see a drastic decrease when and "if" the glow plugs come on while running.
The dash light for the glow plugs coming on "intermittently" tells me they are, so something is telling the controller to light them up, "if" you've already changed it, then it's getting a signal from somewhere,
if they are coming "on" at times when they shouldn't, this will definitely put a strain on your battery, especially if you have any other accessories running also.

 

[Luath]

Hi Chaps,

Fired up the tractor this morning and left it idling. Checked fro time to time until (about an hour later) the orange light was on. Circuit tester from glow plug to brake pedal and light came on. The orange light went off and the circuit tester gave no further response. Unfortunately there was no time to get a meter reading from the glow plug. I used the meter across the battery and it indicated 14.33V with the engine idling.

I have had occasions while using the tractor when the glow plug warning light has been on for prolonged spells, I guess this is the reason for battery drain. Tractor has flashers and three working lights, all rarely used. No other electrical take off as far as I know.

Any thoughts upon the next step?

Cheers, Luath

 

[Dave M7040]

Luath
Do you have a wiring diagram you could post?
You said you replaced the glow plug relay but I am wondering if there is also a controller which determines how long the glow plugs are powered.
From your most recent post, if I understand correctly, the test light confirmed power to the glow plugs at the same time the dash light was on and further showed no power to glow plugs when dash light was off.
Is this correct?
Dave

 

[Yamaha2112]

Check the alternator bracket. I had the same problem and tried EVERYTHING only to find out later it was snapped and couldn't provide enough belt tension. It looked ok until I got close. Couldn't believe it when I saw it.

 

[skyhook]

You must have an upgraded alt to be putting out that voltage, when you put the test light on the glow plug and grounded it to the brake pedal, you said the glow plug light went out....
This tells me you have a bad ground somewhere in that circuit, ( because when you used your test light, you essentially created a ground in that line,), check your ground wires, the relay or controller for the glow plugs is not receiving a signal to shut off, or at times it is etc....

 

[Dave M7040]

You must have an upgraded alt to be putting out that voltage, when you put the test light on the glow plug and grounded it to the brake pedal, you said the glow plug light went out....
This tells me you have a bad ground somewhere in that circuit, ( because when you used your test light, you essentially created a ground in that line,), check your ground wires, the relay or controller for the glow plugs is not receiving a signal to shut off, or at times it is etc....

Skyhook
Not trying to be argumentative but perhaps the test I ask Luath to do was not adequately described and may have mislead you.
I was having him check for voltage at the glow plugs WHEN the dash light came on to confirm that not only was the dash light coming on but power was being supplied to the glow plugs in the same intermittent fashion that the dash light was operating. The testing confirmed that was happening.

My next conclusion, since he said he replaced the glow plug relay, was to wonder if there was an additional component, perhaps called a glow plug controller, which received temp signals from the engine and decided how long and if the glow plugs needed to be energized.

The test light was not providing a ground path.

Hope this makes more sense now.

Dave M7040

 

[skyhook]

No problems Dave, I do believe there are two for the glow plug system, if I recall..,
A relay and a controller but just can't say positively, when I sold mine i also sold the repair manual for it.
I am wondering why the dash light went out when he applied the test light to the plug, my thinking is that the light provide a path of resistance to ground informing the controller it was time to shut off, hence a ground problem around the controller or relay.
I could be way off base on this, but it's the way i think....lol