Flail Mower Flail failure, (Sort of)

allen in texas · Aug 21, 2015

This past weekend I had the pleasure (?) of shredding 5 acres of weeds and grass. The weeds were 6 foot tall in places and the grass about 2 to 3 feet for the most part. Those were no problem. The problem was the yukka type plants that were growing all over this place. Those were the hardest dang things I have ever tried to cut. When I went over the first one I thought had hit something hidden in the grass. The belt squalled and it pulled the tractor down almost killing the engine. WOW. that was one plant all alone. There were patches where the plants were solid and it was horrible work. It took me 9 hours to cut this place and I was beat up. Of course it wasn't just the plants, the weed chaff kept plugging up my radiator and I was constantly stopping to clean it out to keep the tractor from over heating. it got to the point that I was stopping every pass. I finally remembered that I had my blower with me and I blew everything out and I was able to cut a lot longer between cleanings but man!!!!
This job sucked.
And based on the work and time, I seriously under bid the job. Oh well, the owner felt sorry for me and said that I can do it again in the not to distant future and it won't be near as hard since I have already knocked down those plants. I am also going up on the price. He is ok with that. He even told me that he thought I had under bid the job in the first place.
Bottom line of all this, my flail did NOT like those yukka plant thingies.

Ps, I've had my flail for a long time now. In the time before this job, I have lost 3 sets (pairs) of side slicer knives from hitting something. On this job alone, I lost 13 sets. Yes 13 pairs of knives and the "D" rings all from hitting these dang plants. I was just lucky in the fact that I had spares but I am down to only 2 pairs now. Guess I need to order some more.

nybirdman · Aug 21, 2015

Wrong tool for the job;should have used a brush-hog.

allen in texas · Aug 21, 2015

Don't have a brush hog. Never had a problem until this job but I was sure thinking about it.

leonz · Aug 21, 2015

Hello Allen,

Being familiar with the Yucca I would suggest that you back over them first then
drive forward if you encounter a large tract of them as the rear roller of the flail
mower will be your friend in this case.

As the yucca bends back the stem will be exposed to the flail mowers side slicers
and shred the yucca stem as the mower continues in reverse.

Mowing with the rear roller set at the 4 inch height is the way to approach this with all the
fibrous woody material created by the yucca plant in the first couple of passes as you want
to break as much of it as possible to get it to dry out and begin to decompose.

With the rear roller in full contact with the ground it will reduce the area of the yucca
exposed to mowing on the first pass and then you can either continue in reverse to mow
or drive forward to finish the row. Knocking them back and breaking the trunk of the Yucca
will aid in the plants drying out and then allowing the fibers to begin to separate like corn
stalks fibers over time.

The more you back over them the better they will shatter from the wieght of the mower
crushing the trunks of the wild Yucca plants.

It will look ugly at first but the mowing will go better on the second and third pass if you
have time to do it.

I do not remember which flail mower you have but the losing knife hangers in heavy stemmed
woody brush is a problem with smaller flails that are not crop shredders. It might be worth calling
Hiniker or one of their dealers and finding out what the mounting hole size is for thier side slicer
knives and installing half the number of knives on two rows of knife hangers as thier side slicers
are very thick and ment for cotton stubble, sugar cane stubble,corn and soybean stubble, and sugar beet topping.

leonz · Aug 21, 2015

I forgot to add that a rotary cutter will also shatter the Yucca plants and
create as much or more plugging of your radiator from the fibers in the stalks
as well as the flowers and seed pods.

IslandTractor · Aug 21, 2015

nybirdman said:
Wrong tool for the job;should have used a brush-hog.

Agree. As much as I prefer using a flail there are some brutal jobs that require a medium or heavy duty brush hog for the first clearing.

Thomabear · Aug 21, 2015

Depends on the flail mower. A heavy duty forestry flail mower with hammers will make a bush hog look like a 22" push Murray.

IslandTractor · Aug 21, 2015

Thomabear said:
Depends on the flail mower. A heavy duty forestry flail mower with hammers will make a bush hog look like a 22" push Murray.

Forestry flails really are a different category. Can't lump them with field mowers anymore than a battleships guns can be lumped with man carried guns. They use the same principle but are designed and built specifically to mulch trees. Not sure they can even cut grass.

Thomabear · Aug 21, 2015

Not trying to start an argument here but I wouldn't say (from a category standpoint) a heavy duty flail is less related to a medium duty flail than a heavy duty rotary cutter is to a medium duty flail. Just clearing up a general statement indicating that a rotary cutter needs to be the tool to replace a flail during rough conditions. A flail mower that accepts knife options and hammers is far superior to a rotary cutter reclaiming tree infested property and converting it to lawn.

IslandTractor · Aug 21, 2015

Thomabear said:
Not trying to start an argument here but I wouldn't say (from a category standpoint) a heavy duty flail is less related to a medium duty flail than a heavy duty rotary cutter is to a medium duty flail. Just clearing up a general statement indicating that a rotary cutter needs to be the tool to replace a flail during rough conditions. A flail mower that accepts knife options and hammers is far superior to a rotary cutter reclaiming tree infested property and converting it to lawn.

I would certainly agree that a forestry flail would have made quick work of the woody plants in this case. However that is a very expensive piece of equipment that not many property owners or even commercial pasture mowing businesses have readily available. If I recall they cost close to $10K or even more. On the other hand medium or heavy duty bush hogs are readily accessible and most every mowing company or farm has one.

I love to watch the videos of forestry flails on armored skid steers do their thing but that tends to be done by specialty contractors.

Thomabear · Aug 21, 2015

Actually a forestry flail wouldn't be needed for non commercial settings. A simple consumer grade flail mower with a hammer interchangeability option would take out 2" trees with little effort at a cost of $1500 - $2000 roughly. A value leader EFG155 would be an example. I think this one and similar others have the ability to switch between knives and hammers utilizing the same rotor. Would still be more economical than purchasing 2 implements.

4570Man · Aug 21, 2015

Thomabear said:
Not trying to start an argument here but I wouldn't say (from a category standpoint) a heavy duty flail is less related to a medium duty flail than a heavy duty rotary cutter is to a medium duty flail.

You are technically correct, but not exactly the same thing. That is like comparing my diesel Kubota mower to a MTD, or my 3 phase 300 amp output welder to a harbor freight 110 volt welder, or an S10 to a semi.

Thomabear · Aug 22, 2015

Lol, I think your comparison is just a tad bit exaggerated as compared to a consumer flail verses a HD flail. I've used both along with years of experience running them. Set up with the same knives or hammers the gap in their performance is much closer than the gap in longevity... The key message here is to use the right equipment for the given job while taking usage frequency and economics into account. From a performance standpoint when removing trees I'm standing by my personal experience that hammers work best followed by a rotary cutter then followed again by Y knives. I'll also stick with the common sense logic that the operational principal of a consumer flail vs a HD flail is more closely related than a rotary cutter is to a flail.

IslandTractor · Aug 22, 2015

Thomabear said:
Lol, I think your comparison is just a tad bit exaggerated as compared to a consumer flail verses a HD flail. I've used both along with years of experience running them. Set up with the same knives or hammers the gap in their performance is much closer than the gap in longevity... The key message here is to use the right equipment for the given job while taking usage frequency and economics into account. From a performance standpoint when removing trees I'm standing by my personal experience that hammers work best followed by a rotary cutter then followed again by Y knives. I'll also stick with the common sense logic that the operational principal of a consumer flail vs a HD flail is more closely related than a rotary cutter is to a flail.

If cost was not a consideration, I'd much prefer a forestry flail over a medium or heavy duty rotary mower. I'm pretty sure though that one could buy four or five high quality heavy bush hogs for the price of a good forestry flail. I've never operated a forestry flail but I've always seen them mounted on big skid steers rather than tractors too.

As good as the tree chomping flails are, I still think the more practical solution for the typical TBN tractor owner is the combo of Y flail for general mowing and medium or heavy rotary for backup. I added a used slightly undersized (60") Brushbull 600 to my equipment for $900 and use it mostly to back into heavy unexplored brush and saplings but not trees. I use other methods for wholesale tree removal but I'd jump at the opportunity to operate a real pro forestry flail rig someday!

4570Man · Aug 22, 2015

Most of the the forestry flail mower are mounted on skid steers. I have seen one mounted on a large track loader.

leonz · Aug 22, 2015

The great thing about the Fecon tracked forestry mulcher is how they
designed the tracked carrier around the flail shredder.

For your enjoyment my fellow members of the Flail Mower Nations;

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVygss7i3kA

Hopefully I typed the link right.

bcp · Aug 22, 2015

leonz said:
The great thing about the Fecon tracked forestry mulcher is how they
designed the tracked carrier around the flail shredder.

For your enjoyment my fellow members of the Flail Mower Nations;

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVygss7i3kA

Hopefully I typed the link right.

YouTube says:

"This video is unavailable.
Sorry about that."

Maybe this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVygSS7i3kA

Bruce

Thomabear · Aug 22, 2015

I think I may have mislead in my first post and Island Tractor I agree that most folks will go the flail/bush hog route.
Personally, I still feel I would prefer a medium to heavy duty flail with a "quick change" knife mounting system. For the price of a light duty flail mower and bush hog one can buy a nice tripple purpose unit for cutting, dethatching and clearing. You would benefit from one less implement to store/maintain and actually put to use an implement that will perform better across the entire spectrum from grass cutting to land clearing. A forestry flail really isn't needed... I think I posted this video before but here it is again in case anyone is interested. It's a non-forestry multipurpose flail that will quickly clear heavy brush at a efficiency and speed that no bush hog can match without severe wear and tear. After the area is cleared just switch to scoops or Y knives. Once most people have their land cleared there really is no need for a bush hog sitting around. These units fit many budgets from medium duty and up depending on how much land one has to mow and clear. Even "Value Leader" sells one for around $1500. Just not sure how it would last when put to task...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BG74dzP5S8

IslandTractor · Aug 22, 2015

Thomabear said:
I think I may have mislead in my first post and Island Tractor I agree that most folks will go the flail/bush hog route. Personally, I still feel I would prefer a medium to heavy duty flail with a "quick change" knife mounting system. For the price of a light duty flail mower and bush hog one can buy a nice tripple purpose unit for cutting, dethatching and clearing. You would benefit from one less implement to store/maintain and actually put to use an implement that will perform better across the entire spectrum from grass cutting to land clearing. A forestry flail really isn't needed... I think I posted this video before but here it is again in case anyone is interested. It's a non-forestry multipurpose flail that will quickly clear heavy brush at a efficiency and speed that no bush hog can match without severe wear and tear. After the area is cleared just switch to scoops or Y knives. Once most people have their land cleared there really is no need for a bush hog sitting around. These units fit many budgets from medium duty and up depending on how much land one has to mow and clear. Even "Value Leader" sells one for around $1500. Just not sure how it would last when put to task... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BG74dzP5S8

Yes, a convertible flail that has the guts to run both hammers and Y knives would be very useful especially if the knife changeover can be done efficiently.

I'm not yet comfortable with the Chinese flails simply because the dealer/importers are not quite as well established as one would like for an implement that will need parts over decades. Still, the same was said about Toyotas in the early 70's so things might turn out just fine.