Fix? or No?

[Avenger]

If you have read my other recent thread on my current 500hr service, you're up to speed.

Do You Stop When Something Breaks?

Obviously you'll stop the tractor when something breaks when you're out using it. Least I hope you would. I'm talking about doing your maintenance and something breaks. Do you stop? Lets say you're changing the oil, and you break or loose the drain plug. Do you then continue on to the filter? or...

www.tractorbynet.com

As I wait for parts, I decided to get my butt out there and continue working on the tractor. First thing I did was drop the front axle oil. I drained all three plugs at the same time. I let it drip out for a few hours, and when I went to replace the plugs, I noticed a bit of thread tape in the main drain hole. This tractor uses pipe plugs for the drains and needs to have tape on the threads. I grabbed a little pick hook I have and fished it out. When doing so, something kinda large and heavy make a 'thunk' sound on the drain pan! Knowing exactly what it was, I continued to fish around, pulling a bit more metal chunks out. Eventually, I grabbed a small flexible magnet I have and fished all around inside the small cavity. I didn't actually pull any more out. Take a look at the photo.

The wrench is for scale.

Now, if this was the rear axle on my pickup, I wouldn't be here talking about it. I'd already have the diff pan off inspecting the gears. But this is the front axle of my tractor, and it is not so easy to gain access. I used a small flexible borescope in through the holes, but I couldn't see anything. I really do not want to tear apart this front axle for an inspection. It has not acted up at all... except for that one time:

When I bought the tractor, it was equipped with the wrong steering stop bolts. I replaced them, and left just enough clearance between the tire and loader bracket. Then I put chains on and got bound up, breaking the upper control arm. It's the only real thing that I have had repaired under warranty, and I did the work myself.

My thought, or hope, or denial, is that I broke a tooth in the front end that fateful day, and the parts have simply sat at the bottom of the axle until now. While I do have the knowledge, the tools, the space, to completely tear down this front axle, I really, REALLY, do not want to. To put it simply, I don't have the time. This is not a simple one day or weekend project, as some of you know. I'd have to tear it down, figure out what broke, replace the broken parts, new seals, etc. Nope, not a fan.

So, I plan to ignore it. The tractor has not been acting like it has a broken tooth or ring at all. I know that leaving loose metal in the axle is asking for really bad things to happen, but I'm confident I have the bigger parts out. I left the main drain open, and added a few quarts of oil into the top, to try and flush anything out. Nothing more came out. I think I will run it for a few days, get it all mixed up, and drain it again.

What are your thoughts? Would you stop and tear into this front axle? Or would you run it and forget what you found?

 

[JCoastie]

View attachment 880345

What are your thoughts?

My only thought is .... Damn!

 

[5030]

Run it until it pukes... I'm sure that more than one tooth engages at a time anyway.

You'll know when it fails completely, I'm sure.

 

[Avenger]

My only thought is .... Damn!

My thoughts EXACTLY!

 

[RjCorazza]

That's a tough call... I don't like leaving stuff in disrepair, or an unknown state of repair, but I believe I would let that one ride.

 

[Supraman0614]

If it was working with that stuff floating around the bottom of the housing, it should work just as well without it in there. Besides, if you do have a failure in the future, you would potentially be replacing the same parts anyway, right? Why do the work twice?

 

[alexpops]

Sounds like virtually every commuting car I drove when I was a mechanic in the 70's. After working on cars all day, the last thing I wanted to do was work on my own when I knew I could get another 1000 miles as is. Run it till it breaks down or you have an indication of imminent failure coming, then do the tear down/rebuild.

 

[CaptPat]

I'd tear into it and fix it, same as you would if it were your pickup. You can't know what other damage was caused or what else might be on the brink of failure. Further, a future follow-up catastrophic failure may occur at a place and time that is VERY inconvenient to deal with. If you decide to let it go be sure to disclose the issue when you decide to sell the tractor.

 

[BleedingOrange]

If it were mine, it would drive me nuts. I would have to tear into it.

Is there any chance that more damage could be created by not repairing it now ?

Would it be possible to ask your local tractor dealer for their opinion re thus issue ?

 

[Avenger]

I'd tear into it and fix it, same as you would if it were your pickup. You can't know what other damage was caused or what else might be on the brink of failure. Further, a future follow-up catastrophic failure may occur at a place and time that is VERY inconvenient to deal with. If you decide to let it go be sure to disclose the issue when you decide to sell the tractor.

Oh I get that! If it does break down, out in the field, it would suck getting it back to the shop for repairs. And if I do, when I do decide to get rid of the tractor, I have all my maintenance logs that go along with it. I do that for everything, take detailed notes and photos. Thats where my photos came from in this thread. I'd even go over the entire log with whomever buys it.

This axle is not like a rear end on a pickup. You have to remove the entire axle from under the tractor, remove the final drives on both ends, and then split the housing to gain access to the differential, ring gear, and pinion gear. It is not an easy job.

If it were mine, it would drive me nuts. I would have to tear into it.

It does kind of drive me nuts. But since it doesn't seem to effect the front end, or at least hasn't yet, I think I'm fine. I do plan on running it, near by the shop, to mix up the new oil really well, and then drain it again. My goal is to get the rest of the metal out if there is any. I haven't been hard on this tractor since moving to my new home. Its all flat and I'm not logging with it anymore. Just driving around the field, mostly mowing and snow removal these days.

Is there any chance that more damage could be created by not repairing it now ?

Absolutely there is! One of these broken teeth could jam up in the ring or DRV gears and break more things. It could seize up the entire front axle. That's why I plan to drain the oil again after running it around a bit, to see if I can get more out. If even more metal comes out, then I'll know more and probably tear into it. Not much came out so far, maybe a tooth, or part of a tooth.

Would it be possible to ask your local tractor dealer for their opinion re thus issue ?

I could. But the only real reason I go to the LS dealer anymore is for hard to find parts. Which is almost never. I used to work at a tractor dealership as a mechanic, and feel confident in my own abilities and diagnosis. If it breaks down further, I'll deal with it.

 

[5030]

Does the unit have a drain plug on the bottom of the axle? If so, I think I'd pull the plug, drill it part way in with an appropriate sized drill and install a magnet in the hole with epoxy. That way, the magnetic plug will attract anything and you can pull the plug and clean it.

That is EXACTLY what I did on both of my M9 Kubota's but I went a step farther because my outboards on both of them are segregated from the axle proper with oil seals so I also drilled and set magnets in each of the outboard lower drain plugs.

if it's good enough for the differentials in my vehicles, it's good enough for the tractors too and you can purchase about any size of magnets diametrically on Amazon or at McMaster Carr.

I also added atmospheric breathers to both the axles. Kubota don't do that at least on my units but they are there now. I do have the machine tools to do that with so was a non issue.

I drilled the fill plugs and tapped them for hose barbs and added breather hoses that I attached to the frame under the cowl.

 

[5030]

Presently, on my M9 open station, the right hand side outboard has suffered a radial seal failure so I need to remove the wheel and remove the outboard planetary and replace the large 'O' ring and stub seal. Been weeping for a while now but just started really leaking. I have the parts in the shop as I anticipated replacing them early this year. Not bad for 6700 hours of farming actually.

I did have to replace the king pin bushes on both sides last year as they were shot and allowing the upper and lower knuckles to develop radial play which if left unchecked would eventually cause radial seal failure. I replaced both radial seals as well. She has a ton of hours on her and it's all heavy duty farm and loader work.

If I were you, I'd modify the drain plug(s) with magnets and call it good. Like I said in a previous post, more than one tooth engages at one time so a missing tooth should not impact it but just the same, I'd take it apart and replace the gears. You can order them ahead of time (like I did) and have them on hand to make the fix easier. Just my opinion.

 

[oosik]

I have never broken anything while running. However - during maintenance - different ball of wax.

I always pull the tractor out of the carport and onto my lawn. So many times - I drop a part. Falls into the grass. AND it's ALWAYS a special part that can only be purchased at the Kubota dealer.

Finally - I got a brain flash. I got a metal detector to find that @#$% part down there in the grass.

Wouldn't you know it. Since the purchase of the metal detector - not lost a single part/not used the metal detector to find a lost part.

 

[5030]

Mostly I drop those snap over lynch pins in the grass and they vanish so I keep a good supply in stock at all times... just in case. It's also amazing how errant nuts and bolts vanish in the gravel in the driveway. Maybe I need to invest in a metal detector, any suggestions, don't want to drop a fortune on one...

 

[Avenger]

I was thinking the same thing, replacing the drain plug with a magnetic one. I've done that on all my vehicles various gear boxes. I'll have to look up the plug size (it's already installed holding back fresh oil) and see if I can find one with a magnetic end.

As far as losing things, happens more than I'd like to admit. When I go to our local farm supply store, I always grab a few pins, hose clamps, a bucket, maybe a few different sizes of nuts and bolts, etc. O-rings! I always need an o-ring. I'ts good to have spare parts on hand. Keeping them organized is another matter all together.

 

[Avenger]

Does the unit have a drain plug on the bottom of the axle? If so, I think I'd pull the plug, drill it part way in with an appropriate sized drill and install a magnet in the hole with epoxy. That way, the magnetic plug will attract anything and you can pull the plug and clean it.

Oh! I see what you're sayin. Make a magnetic plug out of the existing one. Usually I buy them, but making one would be faster and then I wouldn't need to measure this one! Just drill it, find a magnet, and epoxy it in. Should be simple enough.

 

[5030]

I'm sure you have a drill press and vice or at least I presume you do. I chucked mine in one of my shop lathes and drilled them and did the same for the barbed breather fitting. least with magnetic drain plugs, they will attract any ferrous stuff and collect it for you and keep it out of the lubricant. If you don't, Harbor Freight has a nice benchtop drill press on sale for 89 bucks. I'm going to buy one this week but I won't use it as a drill press at all as all I really need is the base, column and tilting table.

I'll get a piece of mild steel and bore the column OD in the back of it, and secure it (I'll weld it) to the top of the column so I can mount my magnetic drill on it and pick up a flat drill press vice and mount that to the table with slides so I can move it back and forth. That way I can use the mag drill and annular cutters or drills in the drill chuck to drill holes and it will sit nicely on one of my bench tops (screwed down of course) and if I need the mag drill for other tasks it will still be available. Gonna wind up tossing the headstock, belt drive and motor entirely along with the supplied JT3 drill chuck.

 

[Bobrown14]

I've towed my MT352 outta the wood lot with a pickup Tacoma pickup truck. So towing out of a field would be pretty easy just need another hand and tow straps. I pulled mine in reverse around a bunch of solar panels.

That said - I'd get the dealer to fix under warranty if thats an option. Otherwise wait until early spring when its all muddy out and repair yourself.

Edit: for parts try Messicks they have everything for that same tractor with new holland on the hood. I've waited 5 days the longest wait and much cheaper than LS.