OP
jcliburn
Gold Member
I've wondered before if starting off-corner is a welding best practice. You've answered my question. Thanks!
First weld-on grab hook
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I've wondered before if starting off-corner is a welding best practice. You've answered my question. Thanks!
OP
jcliburn
Gold Member
James,
What would have been your motivation for using a 1/8" rod: the thickness of the bucket metal (3/16")?
What is the thickest mild steel for which you'd use a 3/32" rod?
Using the rule of thumb for current. 1 amp for each 0.001 inch of thickness.
3/16 = 0.187 inches. Than we need 187 amps. now 187 amps is excessive, so I backed off to 130 150 amps with out regard to the rod type.
Inkomodius
Bronze Member
Cannot say that I have ever heard of that rule of thumb before. 
I've heard of people using a rule of thumb of 25-40 amps per 1/32 of rod diameter. 130 - 150 is still even in the high range for a 1/8.
As far as determining what size of rod for the material, again varies by situation. In the hook case I would also have run a 1/8th rod, its easier to fill and requires less rod changes since you have more filler material per rod. But again can change with what position and direction you are welding. Just try different rods and get comfortable with whats good for you. You might like the small rods and have to do multi pass welds for thicker material.
I've heard of people using a rule of thumb of 25-40 amps per 1/32 of rod diameter. 130 - 150 is still even in the high range for a 1/8. As far as determining what size of rod for the material, again varies by situation. In the hook case I would also have run a 1/8th rod, its easier to fill and requires less rod changes since you have more filler material per rod. But again can change with what position and direction you are welding. Just try different rods and get comfortable with whats good for you. You might like the small rods and have to do multi pass welds for thicker material.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
The thickness of the base plate at 1/4 and the hook itself, I would have started with 1/8 and a little hotter than you did maybe 120 or so and adjusted up or down depending on how it looks. the 3/32 would be fine for the 3/16 steel. but you put some heavier metal on it and you could point the rod a little more toward the heavier metal, But all that said, I think your hook is on there to stay,
I bet if you ripped it off the 3/16 base metal would break first before your weld. Now take this advice for what it is worth, I am not a very good welder, I am a telephone/data sales engineer. I am pretty good at that. I have welded for about 15 years to repair my things and to make things. But most things did not look pretty or were even good welds.. I cannot remember anything coming apart I welded together though. Everyone has opinions on how things should be done, However you just went and did it. I applaud that.
James K0UA
I bet if you ripped it off the 3/16 base metal would break first before your weld. Now take this advice for what it is worth, I am not a very good welder, I am a telephone/data sales engineer. I am pretty good at that. I have welded for about 15 years to repair my things and to make things. But most things did not look pretty or were even good welds.. I cannot remember anything coming apart I welded together though. Everyone has opinions on how things should be done, However you just went and did it. I applaud that.
James K0UA
Transit,you would be about right for a 1/8th rod,,,,you don't judge your heat
setting on how thick your metal is,you judge it based on how big your rod is.
Inko,6010 is not known for being a brittle rod anymore than a 7018 is,,passed many bend tests with 6010,passed many tensile with 6010,,pipeline that is under ground has nothing to do with using either one,,pipeline is welded with a 6010 type rod,cause a 7018 is not made to put an open root in with,nor is it made to be run downhill which is what most pipelines are welded,downhill.
A downhill weld is just as strong as an uphill weld if done by somebody who knows how. Most pipelines are of sch 40 pipe,which lets the welder make a perfect weld downhill,[vee groove,1/8th root,and hot,,5/32 fill and sometimes 3/16 cap,one over the other as weaves after hot pass],powerplant type work generally involves thicker pipe,which means wider covers,not supposed to weave any more than about 3 times the rods dia.,,different animal,,6010 root leaves a rougher root than tig,and leaves slag on inside to a certain degree,power plant types don't like that,thicker pipe you do have a hydrogen embrittlement concern,so many reasons its done different,but 6010 being a more brittle rod than 7018,ain't one of them.
setting on how thick your metal is,you judge it based on how big your rod is.
Inko,6010 is not known for being a brittle rod anymore than a 7018 is,,passed many bend tests with 6010,passed many tensile with 6010,,pipeline that is under ground has nothing to do with using either one,,pipeline is welded with a 6010 type rod,cause a 7018 is not made to put an open root in with,nor is it made to be run downhill which is what most pipelines are welded,downhill.
A downhill weld is just as strong as an uphill weld if done by somebody who knows how. Most pipelines are of sch 40 pipe,which lets the welder make a perfect weld downhill,[vee groove,1/8th root,and hot,,5/32 fill and sometimes 3/16 cap,one over the other as weaves after hot pass],powerplant type work generally involves thicker pipe,which means wider covers,not supposed to weave any more than about 3 times the rods dia.,,different animal,,6010 root leaves a rougher root than tig,and leaves slag on inside to a certain degree,power plant types don't like that,thicker pipe you do have a hydrogen embrittlement concern,so many reasons its done different,but 6010 being a more brittle rod than 7018,ain't one of them.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Transit,
That rule is wrong, way wrong. On stick, you adjust the welder to the rod thickness since that is what you are melting primarily. Though some melting of the base metal is done, the conduit is actually your welding "rod" or technically your electrode.
Your rating is a crude rating system given for welding with TIG, and no other process.
70 amps will weld 3/32 just fine. A lot of what I see wrong with the weld relates to manipulation, which will come in time with practice. Rod angle, speed, steadiness of hand all play a factor in what is needed to make a good looking weld. I see small areas where things began to gel together before it was lost again. I think I see signs of too long of an arc. Additionally, this was welding straight to paint, which should have been ground back for best results. If this is Kubota orange, I have tried it myself...It makes nasty looking welds unless it is polished off.
Max amps on that rod is about 90 amps for 3/32, and minimum is around 55 minimum. Best arc stability for me is around 75-80 amps, without putting in too much heat and getting undercut.
JC,
The 6011 is a good choice for all around welding, DC or AC. 6011's have arc stabilizers in the flux for better starting, welding, and all around likeability. They offer slightly less penetration, but most people can't tell the difference after the flux is buffed off and weld is cleaned up.
Try bracing off a little more to steady your hand. Make sure you can see out of your helmet, and slow down. Your arc length should not be more than the width of the welding rod. Add another 10 amps and see what happens. You'll probably get that thing to hold as it is, but for safety's sake, I would step up to 1/8" and run a 7014 pass on top of that after you clean off some flux.
That rule is wrong, way wrong. On stick, you adjust the welder to the rod thickness since that is what you are melting primarily. Though some melting of the base metal is done, the conduit is actually your welding "rod" or technically your electrode.
Your rating is a crude rating system given for welding with TIG, and no other process.
70 amps will weld 3/32 just fine. A lot of what I see wrong with the weld relates to manipulation, which will come in time with practice. Rod angle, speed, steadiness of hand all play a factor in what is needed to make a good looking weld. I see small areas where things began to gel together before it was lost again. I think I see signs of too long of an arc. Additionally, this was welding straight to paint, which should have been ground back for best results. If this is Kubota orange, I have tried it myself...It makes nasty looking welds unless it is polished off.
Max amps on that rod is about 90 amps for 3/32, and minimum is around 55 minimum. Best arc stability for me is around 75-80 amps, without putting in too much heat and getting undercut.
JC,
The 6011 is a good choice for all around welding, DC or AC. 6011's have arc stabilizers in the flux for better starting, welding, and all around likeability. They offer slightly less penetration, but most people can't tell the difference after the flux is buffed off and weld is cleaned up.
Try bracing off a little more to steady your hand. Make sure you can see out of your helmet, and slow down. Your arc length should not be more than the width of the welding rod. Add another 10 amps and see what happens. You'll probably get that thing to hold as it is, but for safety's sake, I would step up to 1/8" and run a 7014 pass on top of that after you clean off some flux.
OP
jcliburn
Gold Member
The paint was removed with a braided wire wheel before welding. It was dang tough paint, too.
Thanks Mark. Maybe I'll grind it off and have another go when I get time, next time with a 1/8" 6011 starting out at about 120 amps. The weather has finally cooled off and it's now actually downright pleasant outside. (I do my welding in the pole barn.)
Inkomodius
Bronze Member
Gauthier:
As far as where I work you will never see Sch 40 pipe buried around here, most of the line pipe is less than half the thickness of sch 40 depending on the gas/oil companies requirements. All of the risers we build to tie in to a pipeline have to have machined transitions on them. Were lucky if we get to put a 3/32 land on, and bead with 3/32 6010, fill with 1/8th 7010 and cap with 5/32. thats up to about a 6" mainline. And I am no welding engineer I just follow procedure. And from the discussions I have had with weld engineers is you can get away with down handing and 6010/7010 on mainlines is basically a strength/profit compromise. Here there is never a down hand weld above ground for either pressure or structural due to the strength issue. If it is an above ground position weld granted you can run your bead in down hand however fill and cap is all up. And while a down hand weld maybe acceptable if a procedure calls for it, I would never take it over an up hand.
And if you would like to test the brittleness of 6010 over 7018, stitch 2 pieces of plate together with each rod and put them through a slip roll. I have yet to see a 7018 fail before a 6010.
Again I'm no engineer nor am I discrediting or trying to start a fight. Ive been welding for 13 years and I am still learning
As far as where I work you will never see Sch 40 pipe buried around here, most of the line pipe is less than half the thickness of sch 40 depending on the gas/oil companies requirements. All of the risers we build to tie in to a pipeline have to have machined transitions on them. Were lucky if we get to put a 3/32 land on, and bead with 3/32 6010, fill with 1/8th 7010 and cap with 5/32. thats up to about a 6" mainline. And I am no welding engineer I just follow procedure. And from the discussions I have had with weld engineers is you can get away with down handing and 6010/7010 on mainlines is basically a strength/profit compromise. Here there is never a down hand weld above ground for either pressure or structural due to the strength issue. If it is an above ground position weld granted you can run your bead in down hand however fill and cap is all up. And while a down hand weld maybe acceptable if a procedure calls for it, I would never take it over an up hand.
And if you would like to test the brittleness of 6010 over 7018, stitch 2 pieces of plate together with each rod and put them through a slip roll. I have yet to see a 7018 fail before a 6010.
Again I'm no engineer nor am I discrediting or trying to start a fight. Ive been welding for 13 years and I am still learning
DanD78
Platinum Member
I also keep my 7018 rod in one of those yellow "O" ring sealed tubes. I only take the rods out a few at a time and never leave the lid open longer than it takes to remove the rods. I have no issues with damp rods. I like to use 1/8 6010 5P+ (Lincoln electrode) for a root pass, grind or wire wheel it clean then cap with 3/32 7018. I always do this on carbon steel pipe. I like to put down several good wet passes with a smaller rod than use 1/8" 7018. For thicker material and wider gaps I will use the 1/8" rod.
I would clean up the welds on your hooks and plates then do a 7018 hot pass over the welds you have. Using 3/32, two passes on the 1/4 plates and maybe three passes on the hooks. Hard to tell unless doing it my self.
Dan
I would clean up the welds on your hooks and plates then do a 7018 hot pass over the welds you have. Using 3/32, two passes on the 1/4 plates and maybe three passes on the hooks. Hard to tell unless doing it my self.
Dan
Shield Arc
Super Member
jclibum does that machine have a dig / arc force option? If so with 6010 / 6011 I'd set it about the middle. With 7018 I'd set it on max.
Here is a pretty good example of the "stack of dimes" look.
Here is a pretty good example of the "stack of dimes" look.
OP
jcliburn
Gold Member
It has a separate ground connector for 6010 rods. Although I'm not certain, I think it's related to what you're talking about. There's no adjustable setting for it, though.
Here is a pretty good example of the "stack of dimes" look.
Yeah, I'll be able to weld like that tomorrow, after my dry run today. :laughing:
Shield Arc
Super Member
Actually you didn't do to bad! If you think about it next time you're welding try making a J motion. Run the long side of the J on the thicker material. The J motion will help with the stack of dimes look.
OP
jcliburn
Gold Member
Actually you didn't do to bad! If you think about it next time you're welding try making a J motion. Run the long side of the J on the thicker material. The J motion will help with the stack of dimes look.
Thanks, I'll try it.
What the h3ll is that thing in your profile pic: a semi-portable nuclear reactor?
Shield Arc
Super Member
You mean in my avatar picture? If so you're new to welding!
I'm not a welding engineer either:laughing: And I'm not saying a 7018 makes a bad weld,[as opposed to 6010],just saying that either would have beat the metal that hook was welded on,and 7018 is no magic rod,on the contrary,7018 rod has definite things going against it,and for the life of me,can't figure out why people say its the rod to weld fill and covers on with.
Probably cause many have never used a 6010 type rod to do things with other than root and hot,,7018 does put a smoother bead down,,but if you're used to using a 6010 type to put your covers on with[like a pipeline welder here in us anyways] you can put a beautiful cap on with it that you can be real proud of,[cause it ain't easy],a 6010 type rod lace on a horazontal comes to mind.
Pipefitters/boilermakers[power plant guys],...and pipeliners are in two different worlds,give an old pipeline guy a tig torch,he might try and light it.
Beating what your welding[meaning your weld not being the weak point,in whatever way] is the main thing,either rod would have beat it by far.As would the 6011.
Probably cause many have never used a 6010 type rod to do things with other than root and hot,,7018 does put a smoother bead down,,but if you're used to using a 6010 type to put your covers on with[like a pipeline welder here in us anyways] you can put a beautiful cap on with it that you can be real proud of,[cause it ain't easy],a 6010 type rod lace on a horazontal comes to mind.
Pipefitters/boilermakers[power plant guys],...and pipeliners are in two different worlds,give an old pipeline guy a tig torch,he might try and light it.
Beating what your welding[meaning your weld not being the weak point,in whatever way] is the main thing,either rod would have beat it by far.As would the 6011.
Inkomodius
Bronze Member
Whoa whoa no need to get personal, Im a pipeliner and I love my TIG, Only tried to light it twice just need to find something that burns hotter than my striker
And as far as the rod scenario well said. I guess in this case its a Coke/Pepsi issue. And coke is by far the better choice LOL and kudos to the OP for jumpin into welding its the best way to learn.
just need to find something that burns hotter than my striker And as far as the rod scenario well said. I guess in this case its a Coke/Pepsi issue. And coke is by far the better choice LOL and kudos to the OP for jumpin into welding its the best way to learn.
Shield Arc
Super Member
jcliburn another thing I'd suggest is the next time you use a doubler / backing plate, (Under the hook) radius the corners. Or even a full circle, a diamond shape plate at a minimum. Those 90 degree corners aren't a real good idea.
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Shield Arc,
The unit has adaptive arc force control, that detects arc length, amps etc and compensates for those variables up to a certain preset amount. In other words, the arc force adapts to the users welding style.
The unit has adaptive arc force control, that detects arc length, amps etc and compensates for those variables up to a certain preset amount. In other words, the arc force adapts to the users welding style.
Shield Arc
Super Member
So Mark it is like an automatic arc force / dig?
Hey explain this hot start to me. I was looking at Everlast's website I think it was the Power Arc 200. That machine got my attention! Is the hot start adjustable, or a preset 30-amps. I have a Dynasty 300, but I sure would like to try a machine with this hot start. But I need another machine like I need a hole in my head! :laughing:
Hey explain this hot start to me. I was looking at Everlast's website I think it was the Power Arc 200. That machine got my attention! Is the hot start adjustable, or a preset 30-amps. I have a Dynasty 300, but I sure would like to try a machine with this hot start. But I need another machine like I need a hole in my head! :laughing:
