Firewood cost per cord

hazmat · Jan 10, 2006

With Nat gas prices as high as they are, I calculated that a cord of wood was worth $480 worth of natural gas (btu for btu). of course this assumes my wood stove is as efficient as my hot water boiler... Made the decision to buy a new log spitter for $1,100 easy (we burn 4 cords/year).

So far I cut my own, but the "forest" is getting thin. I'll probably have a truck load of log length delivered in the spring. I hear I can get 10 cords worth for $600 from a local land-clearing outfit.

scott_vt · Jan 10, 2006

( Oak is the BEST firewood! Unfortunately we only have two oaks on our entire hill. The wife and I call it our retirement plan. When we feel the end is near we'll drop those trees and use them to keep us warm those last two winters.

Pete )

I liked that one Pete /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif We have some oaks down here, we also have a lot of poplar and birch. One tree that throws an unbelivable amout of heat is the hardack, I have a bunch of them on the backside of the property that Im saving for retirement also /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I dont know what the goin rate around here is, everyone that burns, cuts there own /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

scotty

Highbeam · Jan 10, 2006

"With Nat gas prices as high as they are, I calculated that a cord of wood was worth $480 worth of natural gas (btu for btu). of course this assumes my wood stove is as efficient as my hot water boiler"

Well that depends on the type of wood of course. Also compare the efficiency of the best woodstove I could find at 70% to the natural gas furnace where they can easily get in to the 90% range. More people need to do this kind of comparison, good job using your noodle.

My plan is burn the logs from the clearing debris in a 70% efficient non-cat woodstove until that is gone and then purchase log loads to be processed by me. I have already secured the source for these loads and it should be a win-win for both of us. I keep hearing 10-12 cords from a log load, I sure hope so that would be nice. Also the convenience of having those logs dropped in one spot to be chopped up and moved a minimal distance to the woodshed for drying. No slash to burn, no stumps to dig up, no permits for logging.

beenthere · Jan 10, 2006

Not to pick on 2nstonge, but in this discussion of cost per cord, the real important factor is how many BTU's one can get from a cord (I'll only talk of full cords here). Wood seasononed only one summer is not going to yield the BTU's that are in the wood, and at least two summers of stacked, split wood protected from rain is important. Sure, the wood will still burn up ok, but it will not produce the heat. Neither will wood that only yields half the BTU's of oak or maple (like aspen, fir, pine, etc). Buying wood by volume (i.e. a cord) doesn't reflect on the drying or the density of the wood, which are most important when determining the cost and payback.

I brought in a pallet of wood last month that I had stacked, over a year ago, and couldn't get the heat out of it compared to wood stacked for drying over two years ago. Big, huge difference.

Anyone burning wood in less than a year is doing a lot of work for very little return, IMO. Don't mean to pour cold water on anyone's parade, but the facts are something to not take lightly.

Outdoor wood burners sell themselves on the fact that they will burn green wood. Sure, they will burn it alright, but the energy is used up converting the water in the wood to steam that goes up the chimney with the smoke. Very little heat, and a whole lot of work.

Highbeam · Jan 10, 2006

There are many different thoughts on how long is long enough to wait before burning the green wood that you split and stacked under cover. The woodstove owners manuals call for as little as 8 months but longer is always better.

Expect to pay more for a cord of oak than a cord of cottonwood. And expect to pay more for seasoned wood for green wood.

2nstonge · Jan 10, 2006

( but in this discussion of cost per cord, the real important factor is how many BTU's one can get from a cord )

Guess I misunderstood the thread. Absolute BTU's is not the #1 factor for me. I like the ambience of having a fire going, the fact that when my woodstove (Hearthstone; soapstone with a glass front) is fired up the furnace isn't running is a nice benefit. My seasoned wood (8 months?) lights easy - 1 match, 4 pieces of newspaper and a couple pieces of kindling - it burns great and throws enough heat to heat my house to 70-73 degrees consistently (2200 sq ft, 2 floors), 3 logs will burn all night with enough glowing coals left in the morning to re-start a fire without kindling. I don't see the extra work or wasted $$ in this scenario.

Will another year of seasoning provide a huge benefit? I doubt it. Some benefit? Maybe, but not enough to get me worried about it.

-Norm

RichZ · Jan 10, 2006

Here in Washington County, New York (on the Vermont border) cut, split, seasoned hardwood goes for about $175 for a full cord. I bought one cord this year from a friend, and it's almost all oak.

I cut up any trees that fall on my farm. I like to leave dead trees standing for the woodpeckers. We have all kinds, including piliated woodpeckers, and they need large dead trees for their nests. But once they fall, I cut them up for firewood. I also run to neighboring farms that I know don't burn wood, when they loose trees in a storm, and cut them up, haul them home, and split them later. We usually get a few cords every year by doing that. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

PhilNH5 · Jan 11, 2006

Beenthere,
I am a relative novice at wood heat but now have 8 winters under my belt. I think there is more to drying wood than just time.

I live in a valley and flat space is a premium. I stack half of my wood in one spot. It gets full sun and the valley funnels the wind to that spot. That wood is ready to burn in 6 months. I have never done a before and after weight test to determine water content but all the physical signs show it is dry. And it burns well.
The rest of my wood gets stored/dried in 3 other spots. These all dry at different rates and none as fast as the first spot I mentioned. In the worst spot (less than full sun and against the hill so less wind) it takes 2 years.

I keep dreaming of building a woodshed with a solar powered fan. I would keep it closed up to heat up and use the solar fan to draw off the moisture. Maybe one day.

Phil

scott_vt · Jan 11, 2006

I live in a valley and flat space is a premium. I stack half of my wood in one spot. It gets full sun and the valley funnels the wind to that spot. That wood is ready to burn in 6 months.

Hi Phil,
You have definitely discovered the secret of drying your wood, with that spot. Without the sun or copious amounts of it, not only will it take a long time to dry but you can actually get some rot in the wood. The sun and the wind are definitely your friend in that department /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

scotty

HammerFour · Jan 11, 2006

Ok, the comment on wood drying made start wondering....

What dries faster, a stack of wood in a shed protected from the rain, but also shielded form the drying effects of wind and sun, or a stack of wood with a nice air gap in each side left out in the rain and snow, but out in the open and exposed to the drying wind and sun?

In my experience, wood stacked indoors out of the sun and wind will have a tendency to rot as it dries, while wood left out exposed to the weather dries out nicely...

I am sure this is climate dependent, we get a lot more sunny and windy days then rainy days here.

dmccarty · Jan 12, 2006

I have been trying to find a document I read about drying firewood. I thought it was on the Forest Products website which is part of the Federal government but alas I can't find what I read.

The interesting points that stuck with me:
- Most drying of firewood is from the end grain.
- The shorter the stick the shorter the drying time. A 24 inch stick can take more than a year to dry to less than 20%. A 12 inch stick can be done in a matter of months.
- Tarping the stack helps dry the wood though its minimal.
- A log will take years to dry out.

I can attest to the later. I had some logs cut from a red oak that was blown down by Fran. I think that was in 1996. I cut and split it at the end of 2004 and it was still wet inside. I was very surprised.

I put my firewood on pallets to keep it off the ground and make it real easy to move with the tractor. I tarp the pallets. What I have noticed is that tarping in warm weather really seems to help dry the wood out. This time of year not so much. The tarps I buying now have a brown side. I tarp with the dark color out to get as much energy from the sun as possible. It seems to help. And the tarps keep the rain off the wood which also seems to help. The problem is that stack does not breath well. Surprise Surprise. My latest idea is to put in T posts around a group of pallets. I am then going to run mason line over which I can hang the tarps. Hopefully this will still heat up but allow air to circulate.

The wood on the south side of the pallets is ALWAYs dryer than the wood on the north side. Surprise Surprise.

Tarping does seem to work during the summer/fall time. Winter the tarps just keep the rain off the wood which is still a good thing.

Right now the best place to get sun exposure is at the front of the lot. Easy access, room to work, and the wood dries fast but its at the front of the house and I don't like looking at it. Got to find another place.....

Later,
Dan

dsutt · Jan 14, 2006

Thought I'd give a little firewood info that I've got: I can get a ~22 ton log load for $400. It comes on a tri-axle log truck and I have no way to know really what the weight is, but I don't care too much since I sell by volume - as almost everyone else does.
There is about 65 to 70 logs per load, and they vary from 15 to 25 feet in length. That makes my log cost about $5-6 per log. I can usually get 7 cords out of that load. I thought I would get more than that too, but nope. So if I sell a cord for $150, I can make around $560 profit per truckload. I do beleive that the wood is more valuable to me burning in my woodstove than taking the time to advertise/phone jockey and deliver. The way oil prices are yo-yoing, just the peace of mind it gives me to see my fuel is worth a good deal. Smells better too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jstpssng · Jan 14, 2006

Heat content (million BTU/cord), 20% moisture:
Hickories 30.8-32.1
Oak: willow, swamp white 29.6-30.8
post, scarlet, swamp chestnut 28.7
chestnut, southern red, white 28.3
northern red, overcup, water 27.0
black 26.1
Locust, black 28.3
Beech 27.4
Maple, sugar 27.0
Elm, rock 27.0
Ash, white 25.7
Walnut, black 23.6
Maple, red 23.2
Sweetgum 22.3
Hackberry 22.1
Pine, yellow 21.8
Cherry, black 21.4
Elm, American 21.4
Sycamore 21.0
Yellow-poplar 18.0
Sassafras 17.5
Cottonwood 17.1
Hemlock 17.1
Willow 16.7
Pine, white 15.0

Here's a comparison of BTU's/cord for various species, compliments of www.madsci.org Actually they extracted it from a Tennessee State Agriculture publication.

I'm sure most of you already know, but one way to shorten drying time is to fell the trees in June to Aug but don't limb it; the leaves will bring much of the moisture out.

scesnick · Jan 14, 2006

My buddies and I sell it mostly on the weekends. We get $100 a cord ( a full cord ) $20 delivery. You would be hard pressed to get us to stack it at your house, unless you are elderly of course. We cut mostly red and white standing dead Oak. It burns great. We usually can not cut and haul it fast enough. We have cut and sold atleast 60 cords.
Here in Western Md. You can get a permit from the DNR for $10 and cut a cord of standing dead in state forest land. That one cord per permit usually ends up being 5-10 cord per permit. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Theowegian · Jan 14, 2006

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post. I found the discussion about drying firewood especially interesting.

here is a good link on firewood.

All About Firewood

dwight

AutoUnionTypeC · Jan 24, 2006

( I have been trying to find a document I read about drying firewood. I thought it was on the Forest Products website which is part of the Federal government but alas I can't find what I read.)

I know the document you mean, this one I believe.

http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/firewood.html

I buy my firewood in log form so I'm not exactly sure how much I pay per cord. A couple years back I paid $300 for a truckload, last year it was $350, this was around March. I tried to get a second load on the ground last fall but didn't quite make as they were backed-up 20 loads and the price had gone up to $400. One load will heat my home for two years, that's pretty much running wood exclusively we haven't had any oil for two winters now. Except for twenty or thirty gallons just so we can go away overnight should we choose.

I run a Jotul Oslo all the time and have a little Waterford Leprechaun on the second floor to help out when we have sustained single digit temps.

Regards, Jamie

dmccarty · Jan 24, 2006

Jamie,

That is the link! Thanks.

I likely saw the page but the info I was interested was at the bottome of the document. I'm sure I just did not read to the bottom.

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

The part that was interesting to me was....

( # There are people who insist that wood should be dried (seasoned) for at least one or two years. Experimental evidence has established that that is nearly always unnecessary, as long as the pieces of wood are cut to length and stacked. Natural airflows through the stack, and particularly through the cut cells of the pieces of wood themselves, dries them sooner than that. Experimental evidence has established that one-foot long cut pieces generally dry to acceptable levels in just two or three months. Two-foot long cut pieces take about six or seven months for similar acceptability. Four-foot long cut pieces DO require at least a year.

Associated with this, covering the woodpile with a tarp slightly improves this, but probably not enough to make the expense of a tarp worthwhile, except in a climate where rain and very high humidity is common. Similarly, split pieces of wood tend to dry slightly faster than full diameter logs, but again by minimal amounts.

There appears to be no value in drying firewood more than about nine months.

# If wood is stacked in four-foot or longer lengths, the drying process is greatly slowed. In other words, if wood is cut to four-foot length and stacked, for nine months, and then cut to shorter burning length just before use, it will probably not burn well because it is still to wet (green). )

Right now I have three good size trees and one little one cut into roughly 16 inch lengths for next season. The trees have been down for years and most of the bark is gone. Some of it was checked as soon as I cut it. I have a another group of trees that came down a year a so ago that I hope to cut up soon. That might be use for burning in 2007/2008.

I do put tarps on my pallets of wood. It seems to help especially when its hot outside. I think the tarps heat up the wood in the sun and act like kilns. And of course the tarps keep the water off the wood when it rains. No snow/ice so far this season.

Later,
Dan

Highbeam · Jan 24, 2006

Got a question... when you, and that article, talk about tarping do you mean just covering the top or do you completely encase the stack. Seems the tarp would trap all the moisture in there and that the bottom couple of rows would get soaked with wind driven rain plus whatever rainwater runs off the tarp. Those bottom rows would wick up or at least provide moisture for the upper rows.

turnkey4099 · Jan 24, 2006

Cover only the top if at all. I do not cover anything. In real life, wood absorbs water only through the end grain thus putting tarp over it really doesn't accomplish a lot, just like the article said. Of course wood will totally saturate given enough time if totally immersed but...

Even after heavy rain, if I want some dry wood off of one of my outside piles, I only have to remove a layer or two on top of the stack. If I wait a day or two, even the top layers are as dry as the rest of the wood.

Harry K

dmccarty · Jan 24, 2006

Highbeam,

I tarp the whole pallet. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The danged thing looks like some freaky wrapped XMass pressent for or from Paul Bunyan. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I Tarp it so that rain can't get to the wood at all unless the tarp blows off which seldom happens. I swear when its above 60 the wood dries quicker under the tarp. I started buying tarps with one side at either brown or black. I keep the dark side of the tarp on the "outside" to get solar heat build up. Now at this time of the year I'm not sure the tarp is helping. It might be hurting since the wind can't get to the wood. Soooooo, I take the tarps off if it is not going to rain. I'm stacking on pallets and if it rains that water seems to migrate into the middle of the stack and stay there.

What I see on some farms is that they put a piece of plywood on top of the stack to keep the rain from seaping into the pile. Rain would still hit the end grain but the wind would as well.

I *** THINK *** what I will do next is once I get the wood split and on the pallets, I'm going to put in Tposts so I can string the tarps over the pallets with enough overhang that the driven rain can't get to the wood but the wind can. Hopefully the sun will still generate a lot of heat to help dry out the wood.

I'm likely making this more complicated than it needs to be. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

This season I really did not have much choice since I could not start spliting the wood until late. The other reason I tarp is that I move the pallets with the tractor to the house. When I move the pallets I run string around the tarp which helps keep the wood from falling off the pallet.

Later,
Dan