Fire Dept. access....

[BTDT]

I was reading Eddie's hijacked thread about fire dept. scooping up a scuba diver with helicopter to put out forest fire, and it got me to thinking. If someone's property is on fire (say a wooded area near Eddie, not his property), if there are no hydrants nearby, does the FD have the right to come onto his property and take water from his newly formed lake? Do they have to pay him for water used? Would it matter if it were just the woods on fire or a dwelling? Anyone know?

 

[charlz]

I was reading Eddie's hijacked thread about fire dept. scooping up a scuba diver with helicopter to put out forest fire, and it got me to thinking. If someone's property is on fire (say a wooded area near Eddie, not his property), if there are no hydrants nearby, does the FD have the right to come onto his property and take water from his newly formed lake? Do they have to pay him for water used? Would it matter if it were just the woods on fire or a dwelling? Anyone know?

Interesting question. For the most part I think you would look pretty bad standing there with your hand out while the neighbors woods/house burned down

I know they 'own' the immediate area but does that allow them to go on nearby property and use water etc.? I dunno.

My neighborhood has no hydrants and I am the only one with a pond. I have thought about putting in a dry hydrant just in case of a fire. The pond will fill back up so I am not too worried about 'losing' water. The only ones I might be a little sticky with are the ones right across the fence.... don't like them much and a good fire might let me add a few acres on the cheap Just kidding!

 

[SnowRidge]

The answer depends on a complicated mix of real estate titles, possible easements, state and municipal law, and historic water rights, especially in western states. For example, in Oregon, all water is public water.

I doubt an attorney could provide a definitive answer without substantial research. Any answer would have to be location specific.

Charlz's comment about looking bad is a very good point.

 

[Kendall69]

I was reading Eddie's hijacked thread about fire dept. scooping up a scuba diver with helicopter to put out forest fire

You know this is a myth right. They did an elaborate test on myth busters and proved no way, no how could this happen.

 

[scott_vt]

I was reading Eddie's hijacked thread about fire dept. scooping up a scuba diver with helicopter to put out forest fire, and it got me to thinking. If someone's property is on fire (say a wooded area near Eddie, not his property), if there are no hydrants nearby, does the FD have the right to come onto his property and take water from his newly formed lake? Do they have to pay him for water used? Would it matter if it were just the woods on fire or a dwelling? Anyone know?

Afternoon BTDT,
In the case of a structure fire, in most cases the FD has the right to take water from a private property pond or pool to save another dwelling ! If it was a pool, the FD would replace the water after the fire ! I have been a volunteer 25 years and I cant remember taking water from another persons pool but we have used ponds to save a building !

 

[RonMar]

If it can be accessed easilly, it is probably fair game for state/county/municipal fire use. If you want to store water for your own domestic firefighting needs, such as for an automated roof sprinkler/wall foam system, best keep it out of sight and not easilly accessed in an underground cistern(less evap losses that way also).

As for the scuba diver, on the dipping pump filled tanks such as used on the skycrane or the ram filled tanks on a seaplane tanker, the hole that they fill thru just isn't big enough. As seen on mythbusters, it just couldn't happen. the scoops on the floatplanes are only a small dipping angled pipe or a flap that only open an inch or two.

You could conceivably pick up a diver in a dipping helicopter bucket, but the nature of the release nozzel in most I have seen would not let him be dropped with the water. Besides, I have never seen a helicopter slingload without at least one pair of eyes spending a lot of time looking down at the load on the end of the cable. The pilot's door usually has a big bubble window for just this purpose. I think it would be pretty hard to miss the guy weaing the wetsuit in the bucket flipping you the bird

 

[InlineDieselFan]

I think it would certainly depend on the local, and state laws, I am guessing that in most cases they can just take it in a time of an emergency.

Now after the fire is out you could certainly ask to have your water replaced especially if it was a pool, and most FD's would do so.

steve

 

[BillyP]

I was reading Eddie's hijacked thread about fire dept. scooping up a scuba diver with helicopter to put out forest fire, and it got me to thinking. If someone's property is on fire (say a wooded area near Eddie, not his property), if there are no hydrants nearby, does the FD have the right to come onto his property and take water from his newly formed lake? Do they have to pay him for water used? Would it matter if it were just the woods on fire or a dwelling? Anyone know?

Don't know about Texas but in OK, the answers would be Yes, No and No.

 

[shaley]

I think I'll go and put a sign up on my sewage lagoon: This is not water DO NOT SRPAY ON HOUSE!!

 

[deere755]

I am not sure what the law is on taking water from a pond. I do know if it is close to the road and has easy access we always help ourselves to it. We also have agreements with some pond owners and have installed dry hydrants. Having access to water in rural areas can help lower home owner insurance rates.

 

[Rara Avis]

I think I'll go and put a sign up on my sewage lagoon: This is not water DO NOT SRPAY ON HOUSE!!

Don't have to worry...FDs do site surveys every six months or so examining possible water sources in non hydranted areas...The last thing they want to do is pull garbage into their fire pumps...

In fact, it would be good for your farm to have them do a preplan on it, just in case in inconceivable should happen...

 

[RobertN]

I am not sure what the law is on taking water from a pond. I do know if it is close to the road and has easy access we always help ourselves to it. We also have agreements with some pond owners and have installed dry hydrants. Having access to water in rural areas can help lower home owner insurance rates.

I do not know what the law is on this. I have seen pictures of local FD's dropping a floatapump in a pool, but mostly for protection of that property.

In rural area's, it can take time to get water tenders out. They are usually last to staff, last to go out, last to get there(Code-3 doesn't work so well with 3000+ gallons on the rig) and last to come back.

 

[dmccarty]

Our Fire Marshall recently identified and marked ponds that could be used for fire suppression throughout the county. The ponds have little green markers besides the roads. I have not noticed any hydrants but I'll take a closer look. These markers are quite frequent since there are lots of small farm ponds.

This is supposed to have lowered our insurance rates.

My impression was that the county had to have premission of the pond owner to mark the pond.

Later,
Dan

 

[Podunkadunk]

If my house catches ablaze, I hope the FD has the day off. I don't want a half saved house and a pesky insurance adjuster coming around being chintzy with the checkbook...and not "totalling out" the house.

I can see him now checking off things on his checklist...that's good, yep, that's good, yep, no money there...etc. etc.

Meanwhile, what didn't burn up is forever ruined with smoke smell. You can't get that smell out, EVER!

 

[N80]

I've seen a heli fly right up to a pond and take a big dip with its bucket to put out a brush fire. I have no idea if the owner was 'asked' for permission.

In SC I think waterways, and lakes that are on those waterways are considered public, at least in the sense that they can be travelled on. I have a watershed lake on my property. I think I own all rights to it except for free travel. I could be wrong and I may have less rights than I think. But I think the county has put markers on the road to indicate that it is a water source for fire fighting.

This is kind of ironic right now. We are in a severe drought which makes forest fires a real and serious issue right now. At the same time, my 'lake' is turning into a weed choked puddle. Especially since we are siphoning it so my B-I-L's cows will have water downstream. I think the pond weeds would choke most anything that tried to suck any water out of it!

But, as far as I am concerned, if anybody needs water to put out a fire on their property, barn or home, they can have all they want of mine....even during this drought.

 

[VABlue]

Just last week, while I was out of town on business, the power line right of way next to my new house caught fire. My wife saw it when returning home and called the FD. 20 minutes later she called again - they were lost. Seems the builder never registered the road with the FD (and apparently the sheriff didn't share info, either). Anyway, wifey and nieghbors soon saw two firemen walking downhill in the power line without a truck. They left the truck 1/2 mile away while looking for the fire. When they saw it and called back, they found out the radio battery was dead and had to walk back. I realize they are 18-19 yo volunteers, but geez...

My money is that some jackazz looking at the house next door flipped a cigarette out the window. People can be so stoopid...

BTW, there are no ponds near my place save for the filthy beaver pond at the bottom of a hill. Need the tanker out there...

 

[N80]

We had to register with the county '911' center in order to obtain a building permit. So presumably if I call and give them an address they can find me.

We had a brush fire along the roadside about 2 years ago. (Definitely a cigarette....like who on earth thinks its okay to throw flaming garbage out the window...ugh. Don't get me started on this one. Can't say enough bad things or wish enough bad things on people (using the term loosley) who do this. If anyone is reading this and it offends them....offense intended.)

In any case, me, a local farmer and 3 women got it mostly out with shovels and a few fire extinguishers before the FD got there. It took them about 15 minutes to get there which is not bad at all for where we are. And like I said, we had it mostly out. It kept popping up all along the perimeter no matter what we did. They brought a tanker in and finished it up. Glad they were there.

 

[RobertN]

rural area's can be a challenge. One is if the parcel is linked to the 911 system. If not, what info did the 911 operator get. Then there is the challenge of finding streets in the map books, if they exist in the book. Lots of rural streets/roads are poorly marked, as are adresses. In my area, some numerics are the same on two houses around the corner from each other.They may be different streets, but when you are looking for an address in dark on a rainy night, it can be challenging.

It is common to get calls for smoke checks, where the location is not known too. You have to cruise the area looking. In some cases, a call to the dispatch asking for the contact info on the reporting party can clear things up.

The radio, well, they should have done a radio check before exiting the Engine...

From expierience in the field, make sure your roads and your property are well marked; signs should be clear and legible at 4am on a rainy wind swept night.

Just last week, while I was out of town on business, the power line right of way next to my new house caught fire. My wife saw it when returning home and called the FD. 20 minutes later she called again - they were lost. Seems the builder never registered the road with the FD (and apparently the sheriff didn't share info, either). Anyway, wifey and nieghbors soon saw two firemen walking downhill in the power line without a truck. They left the truck 1/2 mile away while looking for the fire. When they saw it and called back, they found out the radio battery was dead and had to walk back. I realize they are 18-19 yo volunteers, but geez...

My money is that some jackazz looking at the house next door flipped a cigarette out the window. People can be so stoopid...

BTW, there are no ponds near my place save for the filthy beaver pond at the bottom of a hill. Need the tanker out there...

 

[scott_vt]

From expierience in the field, make sure your roads and your property are well marked; signs should be clear and legible at 4am on a rainy wind swept night.

Afternoon Robert,
More true words cant be spoken ! Although on a clear day if its bad just look for the smoke ! And if its at night and really bad look for sparks in the sky ! Youll find it !

 

[motepoc]

I'm going to speak up for the rural fire fighters. Most are volunteer, no matter what age. They don't really get paid for a fire call, it's more of a tip. And here in SC it's about once a month. They receive very little formal training. Most of their training is OJT. They put their lives on the line for every call they go out on, not just the house calls. Just look at the ones in California right now. I was one when I was younger, and an EMT, both at the plant and at home. I can tell you from first hand experience, that they do the best that they know how to do each time out.

Flame off (sorry)