Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

[EddieWalker]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

The way it was explained to me by two different guys who run water companies is that some pumps will surge, which increases the pressure in the lines. This surge can range from a few pounds, to tens of pounds. When this happens, the water can be forced out through the lines where they are weak, and force a leak that wouldn't show up under steady pressure. If this happens on your side of the meter, and the water goes through the meter, then you have to pay for that water.

It is also very common to see the water going in two directions on a water line in it's outlaying lines because of the surging. An older meter can have water going back and forth through the meter and continually add up the amount of water it reads as being used on a line that is not leaking, and nobody is using any water. This is common knowledge to those running a water company, but not something that they readily admit to. Once I found out that this happens, I had a 30,000 gallon water bill dismisses after proving that I didn't have a leak and that their line was surging.

The sell backflow preventors that also have pressure releases on them. I have two of them and they where required because of the surge and the fact that was does indeed flow in both directions on a line. Mine are both make by Watts, and cost about a hundred bucks each, if I remember correctly. The bigger the line, the bigger the valve and the more it will cost. If there is surge, then you will want to have one of these valves installed. I'm actually suprised that it wasn't required on your line since they are now code on most new homes that I come across.

As for 80 to 90 psi that is in the line, that is way TOO MUCH!!!! You really want to be in the 40 to 60 pound range. The valve assembly in the toilet is the weekest in your home and if there is too much pressure, that is where the water will continually run. It might be so slow that you never hear it, or it might be a never ending sound that once you notice it, is very obvious. I've been told storries of people having a hundred thousand gallons a month go through their toilets. It was what I was told was going on in that house with the 30,000 usage when the house was empty. Fortunately I was able to prove that the water was not even connected to the house at the time of that supposed usage.

With that big of a line, you might also have to flush the line periodically. If you do not use the water in the line, and it takes A LOT of usage to use what's in a 2 inch line, the water will go stale on you. The chemicals in the water will break down and it will start to smell bad when you turn on the tap. You need to have a way to flush the lines and make sure that you have fresh water in there. I do this once a year on my line.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Egon]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

Eddie, if the pump is surging it's either wore out, insufficient/varying NPSH due to suction leaks or differing water supply rates or pressures or the pressure controllers are too coarse or not working properly. It could also be oversized.

If the lines are full back-flow should only occur if the amount of water used upstream or downstream of your meter is greater than the amount of water being pumped into the line and that flow must have a gravity assist.

Distribution line pressures may vary in different areas depending on altitude changes, rate and pipe size and type. If you live on top of the hill line pressure will be less than your neighbour has living at the bottom of the hill.

 

[EddieWalker]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

Eddie, if the pump is surging it's either wore out, insufficient/varying NPSH due to suction leaks or differing water supply rates or pressures or the pressure controllers are too coarse or not working properly. It could also be oversized.

If the lines are full back-flow should only occur if the amount of water used upstream or downstream of your meter is greater than the amount of water being pumped into the line and that flow must have a gravity assist.

Distribution line pressures may vary in different areas depending on altitude changes, rate and pipe size and type. If you live on top of the hill line pressure will be less than your neighbour has living at the bottom of the hill.

Yes to all of that. Now Bruce needs to figure out if any of it applies to his situation.

Eddie

 

[grsthegreat]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

ya, were required to have a 2" double backflow watts device on all our hookups. State law here actually if you have 1 or more hydrant or sprinkler valve.

I agree that i doubt anything will ever get fed back into the system. They state that if a large usage device such as a fire hose is in use, it could theoretically siphon off water back into the system without the backflow devices.

Don't see it happening myself. i just think its another useless law that makes us spend hard earned monies. Mine you i did it to my place, but most of my neighbors refuse to do it, and no one seems to force the issue. sometimes i really wonder why i play by the rules when no one else does.

 

[Carl_NH]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

Under pressure the line will leak and when water flows past this it could create a venturi effect to pull in air.

The fact that the this has stopped means the sand/sediment surrounding the line has plugged the leak most likely.

 

[Bird]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

You must have some pretty relaxed rules down there. Up here if tied into city water you need to have a check valve to prevent the possibility of contaminated water in your line from entering the city line.

I thought that was required everywhere. I may be wrong, but I think state law requires it in Texas. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Gary Fowler]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

Texas state law requires every hose connection to have a backflow preventer. I dont think there is a requirement for one in the supply line but the meter may have a built in one.
In Ark, we have to install a pressure reducer in front of each connection to a building but we can use our hose bibs without pressure reducers. The main line pressure is close to 100 PSI where I live due to the elevation of the water tank up on the mountain. I have never seen a meter turn with all the valves closed unless there was an actual leak. I think the pressure regulators would work like a check valve also to only allow one way flow but I have not verified this on water. It works on propane regulators.

 

[Bird]

Re: Finding 2.5 GPH Water Leak in 660' of 2" Gasketed Pipe or is it a metering issue

2.5gph IS a lot of water usage. About 1800 gallons per month:confused2:

My family of 3 only uses 3000-4000 gallons per month. And my bill is $20-$25 Not sure how much he uses, but I would certainly be concerned if my usage was up 50%. That would amount to about $10-$15 per month for nothing.

I'm sure it's different in different places, but I just looked at my last water bill, used 15,200 gallons (watered the yard too much:laughing and at my current rate, 2.5 gph would cost me $8.61 in 30 days. If it was a leak, I'd still want it fixed. I had that happen when we lived down in the country and fixed the leak myself. As far as I know, everything after the meter is the customer's responsibility.