FEL :: Rated Lift Capacity vs BUCKET Capacity

[rockyridgefarm]

Any loader will exceed it's maximum lift , when the load is only lifted to transport height.

I am under the impression, which may be wrong, that loader capacites are rated according to the safe operation on a machine. While a particular loader might have a certain lift capacity, it may be detuned on certain applications for safe and reliable operation.

Bob, I saw those specs at Kubotas 'B; series competive comparison. It was a pdf that poppes up compareing the B2630/B3030 to the Deere 4115 and NH TC29DA. And, of course, it may be playing into lowest common denominator, just evening the playing field, or conforming to a new standard depending how we want to see it. I am glad they still list both. I wish there was even more information.

What we need is the detailed drawing that lists all the measuring points with their rated values. Torque and power curves on engines.

Kudos to Kubota for putting a gallery of photos up! That alone is a huge help. They even have 'beauty' shots! Forget engineering specs, we need more of that!

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Mike, just as you helped me find the specs on the JD equipment, let me direct you to the specs on the Kubota site. Go to the tractors and select the B series machines. On the B series page, select the B2620/B3030. Along the top of the B2630/B3030 page you will see several choices, one of those choices is ATTACHMENTS. Select that choice, then select the FEL. You will find the specs there.

FWIW, I wouldn't ever trust a "comparision" page on any manufacturer's website!!! That page is probably where the MARKETING PEOPLE earn their money!


EDIT: Mike wrote to albmn10: <font color="red"> Any loader will exceed it's maximum lift, when the load is only lifted to transport height. </font>

Mike, absolutely true, if you look at the lift capacity curves, a loader will have significantly more capacity at 12" above the ground, than at 36", and it will have more capacity at 36" than it will at full lift height. This is one reason why we can absolutely invalidate any user observations of their own equipment for any comparitive purposes. For comparitive purposes, we have no idea how high something was lifted, if the entire object was lifted (was just one end lifted?) or even the exact weight of the lift. Add to all that the fact that we users tend to favor our own equipment and are less than objective.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

You probably already read where a poster in Greene land is wanting a loader to lift 1300 pounds to max height and was pleased to hear that Deere's 300CX is rated at ~1500lbs at the pivots. I had the dubious honor of pointing out that it might not do as he was hoping.

Heck, it probably was you working under a pseudonym to check up on me....

 

[rockyridgefarm]

<font color="orange"> FWIW, I wouldn't ever trust a "comparision" page on any manufacturer's website!!! </font>

Yeah, but how else can you find New Holland specs? You don't exppect me to find them on THEIR site do you?!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Doesn't ANYBODY at CNH have a punk nephew that could write them a real website?

Anyway, back to reality, Thanks Bob, this is another great thread.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green">
You probably already read where a poster in Greene land is wanting a loader to lift 1300 pounds to max height and was pleased to hear that Deere's 300CX is rated at ~1500lbs at the pivots. I had the dubious honor of pointing out that it might not do as he was hoping.

Heck, it probably was you working under a pseudonym to check up on me.... </font>

No, contrary to popular belief, I do have a life. Last night I spent the evening at the church in meetings with the school staff. Looks like I got volunteered to fund a 5th & 6th grade field trip up to the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. The good thing is I do NOT have to be a chaperone!!!


<font color="green">
Yeah, but how else can you find New Holland specs? You don't exppect me to find them on THEIR site do you?!!

Doesn't ANYBODY at CNH have a punk nephew that could write them a real website? </font>

No doubt that the CNH websites are a total waste of digital space. Both NH and Case have absolutely horrible websites. You can eventually dig up the specs, but it is darn tough to do. And neither of their websites allows you to access the pdf file of their full brochure of the Boomer type machines that actually has all the data. If I was a shopper looking for a tractor today, both the Case and the New Holland websites would probably send me screaming to buy any other brand!!!

 

[albmn10]

Mike, the dangerous ground i was referring to was simply that if a company does not have every specific detail when there is no real set industry standards that everyone must follow,then someone assumes the x or y brand must be inferior because all their specs werent easily found. I never jumped to defend my tractor brand, i dont know how you got that from what i said. I was mearly explaining my tractor would lift more then it was rated for, as neil stated from his tests. Many tractors he tested did. I would love to see all tractors manufacturers follow all the same standards and benchmarks for consumer comparison. That is not in place at this time and i would hope that folks would not try to jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts. Many folks on here do use their machines for similar tasks which yes is my opinion and probably many others on here, and when comparing a few oak logs i dont think it matters if there dried or full of concrete,most loaders will easily lift that. Sure industry standards would be great, perhaps there are members of each company who read these threads who might pass this information through the appropriate channels. Then we can all get along right.... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[dirtwhisperer]

If all manufactures are giving their lift capacities at the pivot pins - then can't we compare apples-apples - since we could cut a certain percentage off the lift capacity to calculate it at 20" front ? Or can we safely figure that the load capacity curves through the full range of motion would not be linear enough among all brands ?

Also - heres a case in point - look at the NH TC33 when it had the 7308 bucket - I think it was rated at 850 pounds. Now the TC33DA has the 14LA bucket - and capities are several hundred pounds higher. If I remember right - I thought they changed the axle design on the DA series to accomidate the heavier capacity - or is it just the 14LA design ? Just some food for thought.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="blue">
If all manufactures are giving their lift capacities at the pivot pins - then can't we compare apples-apples - since we could cut a certain percentage off the lift capacity to calculate it at 20" front ? Or can we safely figure that the load capacity curves through the full range of motion would not be linear enough among all brands ? </font>


For what it is worth, I have been studying and complaining about the FEL capacities & designs between brands for 2 years and still most people on TBN probably have no clue how to calculate the percentage loss, or that it should be calculated or even that some manufactures give ratings at one point and some give it at another. (and I should mention other members like Neil Messick, Cowboydoc and others have been posting about this/similar issues as well) And if the 'average' TBN poster is considerably more knoweldgable about tractor specs than the typical tractor owner/user, then I suggest there is a huge amount of ignorance out there with regards to this issue.

So to your point, I suggest that if not for a small handful of people here, would you have even a clue of this as an issue? And if you were aware of it then I would consider you exceptional, but what % of the people do you think are unaware of it? Heck there was just a thread by a guy who bought a tractor and thought he had purchased all sorts of capacity, he found out he was wrong and that the tractors he was comparing to actually ended up with more capacity than he got (fortunately for him, he didn't need it all) but he posted about how careful he was with his research and comparisions.

So I suggest we would all be better off it the marketing departments would back down and we got back to some real life specs, which may be best expressed by what is commonly called the bucket center (500mm forward of the pivot point) measurements.

--

As for the TC33DA, I often question why people buy aftermarket loaders when a factory loader is theoretically designed to work as a system with a particular machine and therefore would not overstress various components. I can tell you that the 7803 capacity of 850# was the 500mm capacity, not a pivot point capacity, and the new 14LA also gives 500mm capacity, but I don't know if it is due to hydraulic improvements, improvements in leverage due to the arm design or due to a beefed up axle. However I suspect it is a combination of all 3.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

I was going to buy a NH until my dealer told me that the axle wasn't rated for the loads I ewanted (Back with the 7308) I asked him about the change when the 14LA came with the DA and was told the axle had been upgraded, as well. If so, it was a needed improvement and now makes for a great setup.

At that time I may have been confused by the standerds, but I went more by what jobs the manufacturer rated the unit for. The Deere 430 has a bale spear (and rates the size of bale that can be handled safely) That is what ultimately made my decision, not some spec number.

Ironicly, I ended up not even needing the move the bales with my loader...

I don't mean to negat this greeat thread. I just think that specs aren't enough by themselves. Buyers need to be educated and work closely with a good dealer.

 

[Osconda]

I was wanting to know exactly what my 18LA would lift, so I figured I'd shoot off an email to NH because I still had some unanswered questions after reviewing the specs. The 18LA is used on the TC48 & TC55 two wheel & 4wd versions. My email said:

I recently bought a TC55DA tractor with the 18LA loader and I am trying to determine what my lift capacities are with my setup. I was reviewing the specifications on your website and I have several questions regarding the 18LA loader capacities:

1. What tractor was used for the specifications as listed on your website?

2. What are the specifications if the loader is installed on a TC55DA tractor?

3. Are the specifications accurate if the rear tires are NOT loaded or there is NO ballast box installed? Or is some additional ballast required, and if so how much?

4. Do the pivot pin capacities assume the loader bucket is installed or not?

Thanks.

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Their response was:

Thank you for contacting the New Holland Customer Response Center.

The best source for all your product needs and services is your local New Holland North America Dealer. Although we are able to assist with a variety of customer concerns, our dealers are far more knowledgeable about the technical aspects of our products, the availability of parts, etc. To get your questions answered concerning the 18LA capabilities, please see your dealership.

Our closest dealers can be located by visiting our Website at the following
URL:

http://www.maporama.com/affiliates/newholland/share/default.asp?language=en

Should you experience difficulty in locating a Dealer, we would be happy to assist you. Simply forward your full mailing address and we will respond with the three Dealers closest to your location.

Thank you again for contacting New Holland Customer Response Center. If we can be of further assistance, please contact us at
1-888-290-7377 and refer to file number 2635564. For your convenience, the Customer Response Center is open Monday through Friday, 8am to 7pm Eastern Standard Time. If I am not available any other Representative will be able to assist you.

Kind Regards,

Jim
Customer Care Representative
New Holland Customer Response Center
1-888-290-7377
comments@newholland.com

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So then I forwarded NH's response to my local dealer. What was their response? NO response! I bet they don't have a clue either.