FEL hydraulics - what to buy?

[Ron25]

I'm building a FEL for my compact Iseki TS1910. I know zero to little about hydraulics but learning.

The GMP of the 1910 is 3.1, open center. I have been looking at cylinders and valves from Surplus Center and need to know if this cylinder and valve will work with my tractor ..

http://tinyurl.com/mrpv6
http://tinyurl.com/qg4r6

The reason I picked this cylinder is that the ends will work with my design and price. Also thought the smaller size would work better with the low gpm pump I have.

What size hose or tubing (if I decide to use tube) would I use? I read from old post here that someone suggested the use black pipe instead of tubing. Is that possible? I would really like to use the BP if I can.

And need help with fittings. The cylinder port is SAE 6 which is 9/16-18 SAE from the drawing. Is that a JIC fitting? What fittings do I need from the valve, on the hose ends .. the actual size and type is what I need help with!

Any info or additional thoughts appreciated.

 

[RonR]

Ron,

One of the key factors you need to know when doing cylinders is how much they will lift and how much your FEL can lift.

There is some mechanical advantage/disadvantage depending on where your cylinders attach that needs to be accounted for.

Then you need to know the square inches of cylinder area and the pressure of your system, to be able to figure the force that can be applied to the loader to lift it.

I'm not smart enough (or had the training) to cipher this. It's not really complex, but you have to have some engineering knowledge.

The other thing you might do if you have copied your loader from another manufactured one, you can just use the size they used and be pretty close.

As for black pipe, I doubt it's rated for the PSI you will see. Would be faster/easier to just have hydraulic hoses made.

Another Ron..............

 

[MadReferee]

The GMP of the 1910 is 3.1, open center. I have been looking at cylinders and valves from Surplus Center and need to know if this cylinder and valve will work with my tractor ..

Surplus Center Item Detail
Surplus Center Item Detail

First of all that valve is way way overkill for your little tractor. It is huge size wise and very heavy at 25 lbs. You need to get a small valve that is sized for your tractor's gpm, at least one under 10 gpm. A small joystick valve or the Eaton-Cessna 2-spool valve (Surplus Center 9-4501) will work nicely. Make sure you get the power beyond option on the valve so the 3pt will work with the loader.

The reason I picked this cylinder is that the ends will work with my design and price. Also thought the smaller size would work better with the low gpm pump I have.

Depending on your design that cylinder might be ok. Just make sure that it can handle the forces you will be putting on it.

What size hose or tubing (if I decide to use tube) would I use? I read from old post here that someone suggested the use black pipe instead of tubing. Is that possible? I would really like to use the BP if I can.

For hoses, I would use nothing larger than 3/8" 2-wire hoses. That is what the major loader manufacturers use for this size gpm/pressure. If you want to use tubing, get steel tubing not black pipe. 1/4" steel tubing is good for 6.5 gpm and will be ok for the pressures you will be using. Make sure you have the proper tools to make the end fittings on the steel lines. Personally, I would use hose all the way around as it will be easier to install.

And need help with fittings. The cylinder port is SAE 6 which is 9/16-18 SAE from the drawing. Is that a JIC fitting? What fittings do I need from the valve, on the hose ends .. the actual size and type is what I need help with!

SAE fittings are straight threads and usually seal with an o-ring. JIC fittings are straight threads with a 37 degree cone on the end for sealing. An SAE 6 and JIC 6 have the same threads but the JIC has the cone and the SAE will need an o-ring to seal. You will need an SAE to JIC adapter fitting.

HERE is a helpful reference page for hydraulic fittings.

If you give the guys at Discount Hydraulic Hose a call they will help you with hose and fitting selection assuming you buy from them like some of us have.

 

[Ron25]

Ron,

The cylinders are rated about 5300/3000 push/pull. I figure with two would that be double - right? Not sure what you mean by how much my FEL will lift, but the tractor hydraulics are 2000psi.

Yes, I've been looking at several online and tweaking what I see too what I want - lol. Not sure about the actual angle of the cylinders but I'm close.

At first I took the fork angle to be 45 degree. But I found a good straight side shot of a FEL and by holding the protractor to the screen I found it to be 35 degrees. That and other ways (local tractor shops) is how I"m getting angles, distances' ..

So far I have the bottom brace, side arms and pin holes finished. Pins are 7/8 hitch pins I found online for two bucks each. Now working on the arms to the bucket and that bracing at the front.

Speaking of the bucket - would 3/16 plate be enough?

 

[Ron25]

Thanks Mad,

I didn't realize that valve was to big @25gpm. The one you mention does seem like a better fit - that's the one I'll get. And didn't know I would need the power beyond either.

Where you say "you will need an SAE to JIC adapter fitting.", is that at at all the ports (cylinders and valve), or can I get those fittings installed on the ends of the hose when I order it? Or is the hose fitting something standard (what) and have to use adapters?

 

[MadReferee]

Where you say "you will need an SAE to JIC adapter fitting.", is that at at all the ports (cylinders and valve), or can I get those fittings installed on the ends of the hose when I order it? Or is the hose fitting something standard (what) and have to use adapters?

A JIC fitting needs the 37 degree cone end to seal properly. The SAE usually needs an o-ring. You have the hoses made with female JIC swivel ends on the hoses and the adapter fittings with male JIC ends install into the valve and cylinder. The guys at DHH should be able to help you.

 

[bucmeister]

The issue of how much the FEL will lift comes in to play when considering the physical strength of the unit. If you have cylinders that will lift way more than the tractor or steel can handle then something is going to break before you will have time to realize it is happening. The first day it had my 5300 4WD I went over and grabbed a big ole bucket full of dirt lifted it up and the rear wheels spun so I reached down and locked in the 4WD as I let out on the clutch the rearend went up in the air and since it was a slight down hill and left tilt to the hill it was leaning left in a hurry. As you can imagine my "pucker factor" went to maximum grip immediately, in fact there is still a crease in the seat from that event . Dropped the load and watered the tires immediately.
More loader lift capacity than rearend weight.

 

[Ron25]

OK - the cylinders and Eaton-Cessna 2-spool valve w/PB arrived.

Now more questions. The valve has in, out and I guess a pb port (it's marked BYD) that is plugged. Is it correct to cut into the smaller tube from the hydraulic pump and go from the pump to the in port and then the out port connects to the other cut end of the tube?

Since that doesn't include the pb port - I'm guessing that's not exactly right.

Also, when I connect to the cylinders does it matter which levers operate the lift and bucket? The valve ports are marked A,B,C,D - does A/B operate, say the lift and C/D the bucket?

And on the cylinder, which port is which?

A drawing would help if you have a link to one.

 

[MadReferee]

Now more questions. The valve has in, out and I guess a pb port (it's marked BYD) that is plugged.

That is correct. Unplug the port and install the power beyond sleeve.

Is it correct to cut into the smaller tube from the hydraulic pump and go from the pump to the in port and then the out port connects to the other cut end of the tube?

Since that doesn't include the pb port - I'm guessing that's not exactly right.

Once you have installed the power beyond sleeve in the BYD port it now becomes the output port for continuous flow. So that means you connect the BYD port to the other end of the tube that you just cut. The valve outlet is the tank return and should be connected directly to the sump/tank.

Also, when I connect to the cylinders does it matter which levers operate the lift and bucket?

It doesn't matter. If I remember correctly from the good old days, the left spool is lift/curl and the right is raise/lower.

The valve ports are marked A,B,C,D - does A/B operate, say the lift and C/D the bucket?

If it is like other valves, then A/B are for the first spool (probably the left one) and C/D the other.

And on the cylinder, which port is which?

It really doesn't matter since if you connect them backwards all you have to do is switch the A/B hoses (or C/D) on the valve. If you are using 2 cylinders for lift or curl make sure the same hose goes to the same port on the cylinder. You don't want two cylinders working against each other trying to lift.

A drawing would help if you have a link to one.

Here is one. Look at the Open Center Circuit with Power Beyond which is what you have. It shows a one spool system.

Hydraulic schmetic

 

[Ron25]

Once you have installed the power beyond sleeve in the BYD port it now becomes the output port for continuous flow.

Mad - do I put the plug that is now in the BYD port into the OUT port and not use it, right?

So that means you connect the BYD port to the other end of the tube that you just cut. The valve outlet is the tank return and should be connected directly to the sump/tank.

Mad - my pump is up by the engine and there is a small and large line to the pump. I have easy access to splice right there. So if I cut the small line and remove say a couple inches, do I go from the pump side of the cut to the IN port? And then connect the PB port to the other end of my cut, which goes to the tank? And I do nothing with the large line?

Also from looking at the DHH site, and if I'm correct about removing a couple inches of tube I'll use compression fittings - two, right?

Thanks for the link but it's kinda throwing me because my rear hyd. valve is mounted into the tank .. and on the pump I only see one line and mine has the two, the large/small line. Would the large line be the drainback - in the drawing?

Sorry if you've already answered my questions, I just want to be double sure and not goof up.

Thanks