FEL Hydraulics DEAD?

MrFixit · Feb 4, 2006

Well, earlier this week I mentioned my dealer overflowing Reservior by lowering the FEL when engine was off.

Today I went to pull it out of garage so I could change all the fluids. It took about 2 minutes before the hydraulics allowed the FEL to raise so I could back it ou of garage. Knowing the hydraulics were acting up I decided to tackle that project first. I raised the FEL once, Openened and closed the (2) cylinder independant jaw Grapple, and noticed one jaw had difficulty opening and did not open until the other one was fully open.

About that time a huge cloud passerd overead and it was like a monsoon so I lowered the FEL, shut off engine and escaped indoors. After the rain let up I went to raise the FEL and it does nothing. Won't tilt and grapple won't open. Although I never tried the rear lift the dealer did show me 2 levers on the fender. one for draft and the other for lift control. Moving either lever made no change to what appears to be the Lift rod.

I never used a tractor or before so I can only guess that there is excess air in the pump from air filled grapple and FEL cylinders and needs to be primed. Not knowing the durability of these pumps I'm avoiding running the engine more than 2 minutes.

Is there a safe way to prime the pump so I can get the hydraulics working good enough to flush them out and then inspect for leaks?

Thanks!

Tim

MrFixit · Feb 4, 2006

Forgot to add, Tractor is a 2005 KAMA 354C

Well, earlier this week I mentioned my dealer overflowing Reservior by lowering the FEL when engine was off.

Today I went to pull it out of garage so I could change all the fluids. It took about 2 minutes before the hydraulics allowed the FEL to raise so I could back it ou of garage. Knowing the hydraulics were acting up I decided to tackle that project first. I raised the FEL once, Openened and closed the (2) cylinder independant jaw Grapple, and noticed one jaw had difficulty opening and did not open until the other one was fully open.

About that time a huge cloud passerd overead and it was like a monsoon so I lowered the FEL, shut off engine and escaped indoors. After the rain let up I went to raise the FEL and it does nothing. Won't tilt and grapple won't open. Although I never tried the rear lift the dealer did show me 2 levers on the fender. one for draft and the other for lift control. Moving either lever made no change to what appears to be the Lift rod.

I never used a tractor or before so I can only guess that there is excess air in the pump from air filled grapple and FEL cylinders and needs to be primed. Not knowing the durability of these pumps I'm avoiding running the engine more than 2 minutes.

Is there a safe way to prime the pump so I can get the hydraulics working good enough to flush them out and then inspect for leaks?

Thanks!

Tim

bluechip · Feb 4, 2006

Tim, if your tractor has a disconnect fitting on the suction side of the pump, between the filter and the left side of the pump, remove it and connect the hose directly to the fitting, you may be drawing air here. Remember on this tractor the pump is mounted direct drive off the engine via the PTO driveshaft so if you put the clutch pedal all the way down, the hydraulics stop. It becomes easy to feel the step between stages and practice only pushing all the way when you want to stop PTO and hydarulics. There is a lever by your left heal, if it has been bumped down it disconnects the pto input shaft from the clutch and the PTO and HYD will not work. As part of our prep, we cut this lever to about 1.75" long. It is not normally used and an accidental kick will disengage, the collar that joins the two splines can be damaged by grinding trying to engage it with the engine running so it is best to just leave it in and use the PTO speed selector nuteral position to shut off the PTO.

Any of these could be contributing to lack of lift.

It sounds like you are not getting enough flow and/or pressure. Can your dealer tell you the flow needed to operate this grapple? also what size pump was installed on your tractor. We have 316 pumps available that will provide about 9gpm. the stock pump is a 310 that provide about 4 gpm. We upgrade these pumps whenever we install a loader or backhoe on one of these tractors (the factory gives us 314 pumps now as standard upgrade, check with your dealer and see if he can upgrade the pump.

Running the pump with any of the disconnects not properly and fully connected will damage the pump, just like on Jinma. If this has happended the pump can get hot and be ruined.

After you check all this simple stuff, you may need to change the pump for best results. Let us know if we can help.

MrFixit · Feb 5, 2006

Thanks Chip!

This morning I noticed a3"diameter spot of hydraulic fliud underneath the rear of tractor. The Quick Connect coming from the pressure side of pump is moist with fluid, most liikely culprit for leak.

The dealer I bought my tractor from has only been selling Chinese tractors since last April or so. I'm quite sure he did nothing to upgrade from, the factory pump. I can't seem to find any Grapple specs. The dealer did not order the Grapple for me, he just instlalled Plumbing for it including 3 spool valve.

Anyway this thing was bulit in October of 2005, would I be lucky enough to have the Upgraded 314 pump? Is there anyway I can tell by looking at the cover or castings?

If I have to upgrade to the 314 or 316 I how big of a job is it? I doubt my dealer stocks pumps, I will contact him tomorrow. May be better off getting it through you if he has to order it from China.

Thanks!

Tim

MrFixit · Feb 5, 2006

FEL Hydraulics ALIVE!

Thanks to Chip for pointing out the PTO Lever runs hydraulic pump also. Yep, in the mad dash to run from the rain storm I must have stepped on that darn PTO lever.

I flushed out the system using Kero and was amazed at how clean everything was, including the Screen Filter. No Globs or chunks or holes as others have found. After cycling all the cylinders a few times things got a bit smoother.

I don't know the flow rating of my pump and may still need the bigger one for running the Grapple. It still only opens or closes one cylinder at a time. This may be due to plumbing the cylinders in series as opposed to parallel. As long as they both open and close I dont care, but I don't want to roast my pump if it's too wimpy for the task.

Thanks again to Chip!

Tim

bluechip · Feb 5, 2006

No problem, happy to help. We have been through quite a bit and continue to make suttle improvements as we assemble our tractors. We are still far from perfect but feedback from customers, ours and "the other guy'S" helps so it is a win win.

I stock the 316 pumps, it is an easy upgrade. the pump is stamped, on the cover, but the factory paints after assembly so hard to read. if you measure the length of the pump body (between the two cast iron end caps, I can compare to a 314 or 316, I would only change if you only have a 310 as it was never intended by the factory to work a loader. Since you have the quick connects on rubber hoses, you probably have a 314 as that is the prep for the factory loader. Belive it or not they expect the user to disconnect the hoses for the lift and hook them up to a separate (larger) reserve necessary for thier home market (home made /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) loader.

I have helped several crate buyers of these tractors/loaders replumb so they could actually use the lift and laoder at the same time.

Just for the record as I know Tim has a Koyker, but I cannot support the factory loader in any way, no parts, no advice to stop leaks or improve valves, etc...We ONLY sell koyker loaders on our kamas.