FEL control valve-freezing up?

[digger2]

Gettin cold in my neck of the woods.I've got a LA352 loader on my B 7610.
Seems like everytime it gets in the teens,i'm having a problem with the bucket rolling forward.Everything else is o.k.I can raise the loader,lower it,roll
the bucket back.Everything except roll the bucklet forward.When i do try to roll the bucket forward(by pushing the control stick to the right),it is rock hard,and wont budge.After i run the tractor about 20-25 minutes,its o.k.
and works fine.
It seems to me i remember someone posting about a problem with
water gettin in those covers on the bottom of the control valve,but i could'nt
find it.I havent checked it out yet but shouldnt those covers have some sort of gasket or sealer on them so water doesnt get in there?Also,is there anything in there,when i take those covers off,that might fall out,or is it just a cover and nothing else?Anybody else have this problem with their loader valve?
thanks......... digger2

 

[johnk]

Today I was out there moving some snow and my bucket wouldn't go into float for about 15 minutes. The chill fator is about 10 below and I think the hydraulic fluid not being warmed up has a lot to do with the bucket functioning properly. Alls well now but tomorrow is another day....

 

[alchemysa]

I provided the attached photo in a thread called 'droopy bucket fix'. The end caps are not 'sealed', they are just screwed on tight with allan screws. They are not under oil pressure. But over time the alloy caps and plastic spacer slowly bend under the pressure from the main spring inside. This means they can get air and water inside. (In fact, they may even have an air hole at the bottom. I cant remember). Anyway, its an easy (but slightly fiddly) job to remove the caps and clean them out. All you need is an allan key. Nothing will go flying, the caps are not under any pressure from the main spring if the lever is in the central position. Beneath each of the hex head screws you can see in the pic are a small spring and a ball bearing that is supposed to hold the loader arms and bucket in the float detent position. In mine, water in the caps had rusted these little springs and made them useless - not that that particulary concerned me. When you refit the caps you may find it easier to put the little springs and ball bearings in last. (Thats where it gets fiddly).

Freezing is not a problem here. Its over 100 degress today. I'm over 50 and I've never even seen snow.

 

[alchemysa]

Just a quick follow up to my previous post. If there is an air hole in the bottom of the cap (I can't check at the moment) you may simply be able to remove one of the hex head screws, the little spring and the ball bearing, and gently clean out the cap with compressed air.

 

[digger2]

Thanks for the reply,i knew i saw it somewhere.I think i have water in those caps and its frozen till the hydraulic fluid warms up.I'll check it out
soon.As far as you being over 50 and not ever seeing snow,you can be
glad.Its great when your a kid,but it makes a mess out of everything.
I'm 50 this year and i think i've seen way too much.
digger2

 

[rickster]

Its been very cold here and while I was out clearing the drive I thought my
bucket was dumping kind of slow also.

 

[DanR67]

Digger2 -

I think all B7610 (B7410 & B7510 too?) owners could potentially suffer from this. I only have this problem when it gets cold (ex < 20 deg F)

I once disassembled my FEL valve endcap - this is where the problem lies. The FEL valve assembly is a different style than what Alchemysa posted - there is a big "hex" cover that simply unscrews from the bottom of the valve. There are two of these valve spool covers - but like you - I've only had problems with "bucket dump".

Here is a link to my pics of the FEL valve - the cover disassembly is shown in the last 6-7 pictures to the far right:

FEL Hydraulic Control Valves

I wasn't able to fix the valve cover entirely: you need some type of spring compressor to press down on the spring loaded collar - then the ball-detents would come out - then the ring could come off etc. I think the problem is that corrosion forms and prevents the collar / detents from working smoothly.

IIRC - the only other tricky part was getting the small, internal snap-ring out of the "top" (well "bottom" when it's mounted) of the cover - in order to get the spring-detent sub-assembly removed.

IIRC - the other posts that I read - said to drill a small hole (ex. 1/16" or so?) at the "bottom" (when mounted!) of the cover - so that any water that does get in there can drain out - but I don't remember if this was through the "end" (meaning the end of the detent sub-assembly itself) or through the side of the detent housing. My guess would be the housing - I think it's aluminum - whereas the detent is steel.

***************************************

As far as "where does the water come from?" - while the valve covers don't have o-rings on them - I think it's extremely unlikely that water could work it's way "up" the threads - you'd have to submerge your CUT!

If you look at the first (ie left side) pics in the link above - I took some of the upper end of the valves - where they connect to the control lever linkage.

The only thing I can think of is that condensation forms - and that this runs down the spool - through the core of the valve housing / body - and ends up collecting at the bottom of the cover? A little hard to imagine I must admit - but if there were any openings - you'd simply have oil gushing out under pressure - so it must be something more subtle.

I store my B7610 under the rear-overhang of my garage - and put a tarp over the drivers area - including FEL control stick - to keep of any additional dust / bird droppings etc. So whatever water is getting in there - it isn't due to exposure to the elements.....

B7610 Storage

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

Dan

 

[digger2]

Thanks Dan,it seems you like to take pictures,and i know i'm not the only one thats glad about that.I know i'm not the only one it will help,theres plenty of 352 loaders out there.It wont be till the weather warms up that i'll take mine apart.Too C-C-C-C-COLD to really work on anything.Its really amazing what a little rust,and corrosion,and oh yeah......COLD WEATHER...can mess up.
O.K.,now i know what to expect when i do take the beast apart.
thanks again,digger2

 

[alchemysa]

Digger2 -

The FEL valve assembly is a different style than what Alchemysa posted

Yep. sorry. I should have mentioned mine was a 20 year old LA300. I didn't realise yours was a much newer newer and quite different machine, but I guess you would have seen the differences straight away.

 

[digger2]

Alchemysa,yeah ,a slight difference,same basic idea though.Hey,how about sending some of that heat up here?Right now i'd settle for some weather in the 50's.I guess you are having your summer now,am i right?
thanks,digger2

 

[alchemysa]

i'd settle for some weather in the 50's.I guess you are having your summer now,am i right?
thanks,digger2

Officially its late summer but its more like mid summer. I think we're in for plenty more heat yet. This is our 3rd day around 100 degrees. But thats OK, were used to that. Its the lack of water thats the problem. This summer follows just about our driest winter/spring ever. A total of about 4 inches in 6 months as I recall. The reservoirs were half empty before summer even started. So we're on water restrictions and can only use sprinklers for 3 hours a week. Try watering a half acre garden in 3 hours! About all you can do is settle the dust. Everything is pretty brown and looks near dead. We must have at least 50,000 spongers on the public payroll over here. How we can employ so many politicians, public servants, and consultants and still run out of one of the basic necessities of life is beyond me. It's not like we couldn't see this coming. Another reservoir, even a half empty one, would pretty well solve the problem. Instead they'll probably bring in some greenie consultants who'll teach us how to save water by drinking our own p*ss.

(Don't be mislead by my avatar. That pic was taken at a beach shack that gets more rain than here, and it has plenty of bore water too).

 

[digger2]

I know what your talking about as far as the "spongers".We have the same stuff over here...................digger2

 

[dholly]

Dan, I've been dealing with this issue myself since the cold rolled in. Thanks for the pics, makes tearing into it a little less nerve racking.

 

[dholly]

Well, I finally got into it while doing my pre-winter maintenance this year. Dealing with the frozen control was a pain, but my lazy a** just got use to leaving the snow plow bladed angled so when I started I could just get on and go. After a couple of runs up and down the drive and a few up/down cycles, hyd fluid warmed enough to thaw and unfreeze things. That ended up being important - ie., that the up/down spool worked fine while the angle (bucket curl) spool consistently froze up.

I didn't have an open end large enough to grab the spool covers and hose position etc. make it real tough to grab them. I was able to remove the left side (looking rearward from the front of the tractor) with a pair of channel locks and drained what seemed like a disturbingly large amount of water. More than in Dan's glove tip pic. Thankfully, no rust problems and I packed with grease for reassembly. Even with the extra clearance due to that cover being removed, I could not budge the other cover with the channel locks. Left a good number of battle scars before giving up but, based on the pic alchemysa posted, it appears that is the up/down spool and since that never did give me trouble I let it go to battle another day.

Now I'm curious... it looks like Dan took water out of his right side spool but my problems were with the left. And, when I think about it, it does seem most LA352 frozen FEL control posts are actually about the curl function. Wonder why that is?