Feeding the deer during heavy snowfall...

[boustany]

We put out corn. My brother has done research on this and feeds them Purina Deer chow, which apparently isn't that much more expensive than corn and oats which is what he used to be feeding them.

The comments about the nutritional value of various foods are, as I understand it, right on the mark. Apparently, corn isn't good for them as a straight diet, nonetheless, they like to eat it.

The way I look at it, I am disturbing the balance of nature when I feed deer. Then again, my property disturbs the balance of nature, as did the folk who exsterminated most of the large predators around.

So, why do I feed the deer corn? Simple: first, they pig out on the 30 acres or so of cedar and hardwood on my property so they are pretty well fed and a bag of corn isn't going to hurt them. Second, by feeding the deer, a dozen or so come across my back yard and walk around my house a couple time a day for a corn snack. Deer are beautiful (and tasty) animals. It make me happy to see them. It makes the kids happy to see them, and, most of all, it makes my wife happy to see them.

And a happy wife is a good thing. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You may consider making a 'deer feeder'. My brother's design is basically a trough with a roof. If keeps the food dry(er) and less gets covered up by snow.

We should all post our bambi pics!

 

[DaMadman]

Since there are so many posting here that they feed the deer on their property I guess me putting my 2 cents in here won't hurt anything.

I just want to say that while they are a beautiful animal and I also enjoy seeing them around the property I have made a conscience choice not to put out feed for them. I was seriously going to at one point but decided against it after looking into what it does. I did quite a bit of research and it really can cause terrible problems feeding them even if for just a few months in the harsh winter.

Maryland is one of the states that has WAAAAYYYYY to many deer right now. They are being masacred on the roads and have already become nuisances in many many subdivisions and parks around Maryland.

Think about this. As the deers' habitat is dissapearing because humans are building homes and golf courses and taking the land over for our living and recreational purposes not only are we taking the things that deer feed on away but we are pushing large numbers of deer closer together.
Just for a visual. A 200 acre farm that was 50% woods is sold and turned into a housing development. There is now almost no forest for the deer to live in now. The deer that don't get hit on the highways get pushed into 1/2 the area that they had before. So if there were 75 deer on that 200 acres, minus the ones that got killed on the road there are now 50 deer (or more) in an area probably smaller that 50 acres. So not only do they have less to forage on, there is a greatly increased chance that each and every female will now become pregnant and have 1 or 2 fawns in the spring. When the deer were spread over 200 acres the likelihood that they all got pregnant was slim to none. So now not only have people taken the land but also increased the heard by more than it would have increased before, not to mention the fact that when the property was a farm there were several people hunting and taking out some of the population before the does had their young.

Anyway I guess all that long winded post is saying is that if you feed ( suppliment the deer's diet) be prepared for them to grow in numbers and cause you or someone else down the road problems.

I love seeing the deer in the back yard too but you just got to wonder when is interfering with their food supply no longer a good Idea.

Good luck with you deer.

 

[boustany]

Well, uh, not a problem where I live, there are not really too many deer although anybody who grows corn probably feels any deer is too many. Plus, they won't let any more developments around here because this is zoned green belt or whatever.

I guess I'd say if people are **** bent on habitat destruction, should we then starve the deer too? Methinks there are too many people there, not too many deer.

 

[Junkman]

You have just given me and many others one more reason not to ever consider Maryland for a future homestead. Too many people there and they are either paving the land or building houses on all of it. My guess is that at the rate they are doing this, you will need to go to a museum just to see what a tree in its natural setting used to look like. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Oh..... as for the deer..... I will continue to help them along, just as we humans also help the less fortunate to survive by feeding them when a natural disaster takes place. If I were to subscribe to the philosophy that it is a natural culling of the population, then I would also have to subscribe to that same theory about the last tsunami........ which I don't!!!!!!

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Da & Junk . . . no fighting guys. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif But let me toss some fuel on the debate.

First I totally agree with DaMadman and totally disagree with Junkman on several points. We humans created a situation where the deer could become overpopulated and then forgot to control it. Lets be honest here, we (city/suburban dwelling humans as well as many farmers) don't like living with wolves, mountain lions, bears, bobcats so we killed many of the natural predators of the deer off because they ate our family pets, our livestock, and generally threatened our kids and our lives. In many states, NONE of these animals exist in the wild and a coyote is the largest predator and that is barely even a predator if we are discussing deer. So then what did we do? Not much. Deer simply multiplied. Now I'm being pretty simplistic here, but thats the general facts. We are now faced with deer populations that are literally exponentially larger than historic natural herds. We need them to die back to maintain healthy populations, prevent starvation, and preserve OTHER species that the deer are actually crowding out. And those other species include both flora and fauna.

 

[NIXON]

I personally don't know ,or care if it's right,wrong or indifferent to feed deer during the winter months . I just feed them because I want to . I generally feed them shelled and ear corn with some Sunflower seed in the mix . I've just started to add some Goat feed to that . At first they didn't seem to like it . But now they really go for it . John

 

[Junkman]

I believe that the natural solution to this was devised by the Chinnesse.... They eat dogs and limit families to one child to control the population. I believe that we also should control the human population also. I would make other suggestions, but I won't because politics isn't allowed. However, ............... <font color="red">DELETED BY CENSOR... </font>

 

[thcri]

I guess I feed them because I love watching them. A few nights ago there was 10 of them in my back yard. The younger ones were running around in circles and my daughter and I just sat in the window and laughed. Great enjoyment. If the deer are getting over populated them increase the hunting season. Minnesota is doing that in certain areas because the population is high. In fact in some areas of the town I live in they may open bow hunting up because they have moved into town..

murph

 

[penokee]

I feel the same way. I've hunted deer for 50+ years, harvesting my share during that time and also getting to appreciate them for the beautiful - shy animal that they are. I recall years when you'd get back to camp and be happy that you saw tracks, and other years when they were abundant. The only difference is the habitat/food supply. Timber sales/cutting are what affects the deer population - no browse no deer. Tomorrow I go to camp and feed my small herd of whitetails - they live on browse (if available), but look forward to their once weekly treat of whole corn and day old bread.
Final comment - some years when the winters are harsh +275" of snow, they die off by the hundreds and possibly thousands in the deer yards. I go with the grandchildren some years looking for sheds plus pick up jaw bones.

Watching deer starve to death is a horrible thing. The young fawns usually go first and watching them lay there looking at you so weak they can't even get up, negates all the "Don"t Feed" arguments I've heard.

penokee /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Junk, I got a chuckle out of the last post of yours, I tend to agree with most of that one!

 

[penokee]

I rambled a little about deer starving, in my previous post, but am posting a picture I took last winter about 3 miles from my camp.
WARNING! The picture may be a little gruesome to some, but it is real world and what's happening to deer when they starve.
There's no waste in the woods, as you can see sign of the predators that are feeding on the remains, but I have a feeling that if the deer had a say on things - he'd rather not be in this situation.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Junkman]

Bob........ glad to hear that we are both on the same page again. Around here, the deer are fair game for the coyotes and I can hear them screaming some nights as they take down a deer. The hunters take there toll also and I haven't seen an over population of deer in town, however, there have been a over population of school age children filling up the school system causing the older residents of town to leave as a result of higher school taxes. I will feed the deer and hope that the other problem will resolve itself in my lifetime....... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green">
Bob........ glad to hear that we are both on the same page again </font>

Oh yea sure, I'm sure that fact that we disagreed had your stomach churning in all sorts of bad ways /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I have some pretty strong opinions on both sides of the issues here. First there are the deer, and I stand by all I wrote regarding the damage to the ecosystem we are doing by feeding them. I also say we created much of the problem, so I'll agree with you that human encroachment and human population growth is an issue to be seriously considered.

As for the coyotes, we have them howling in packs a few nights each week, and several of the neighbor ladies were all upset one fine summer afternoon when 3 coyotes dropped a deer in the field behind my home WHILE THEY WATCHED and suggested I should go help the thing. Yea, I'm walking into a pack of wild hungry coyotes and disturbing theim during dinner. Sure I am. But that said, I don't see them making any sort of a dent in the deer population, and they certainly are not controlling the herd size. The front bumpers and windshields of cars probably kill more deer around Indiana than the coyotes do.

 

[Docsknotinn]

Bob, I'd have to say IMO there is merit to both sides of this debate. It really depends on your location and environment. I'm just north of Detroit right on a Metro Park. The deer are grossly overpopulated here to the extent we have made national news for having hunts in the park etc to get the situation under control. Here I would certainly not feed them.
At our property in Cheboygen I definitely supplement when I can but I greatly prefer to improve the natural habitat. We do this with food plots and timber management. Next year we will cut 10 acres of Cedar and add two more tillable acres. I wish you were closer so I could show you our place. My ponderosa sets in the middle of 34,000 private gated acres that is surrounded by another roughly 40k of state and Federal land. Its a very unique ecosystem. The coyotes over the last two years have made a enormous impact on the deer herd. They are especially lethal on each years fawn crop. In the last year I have come to belive the only good 'yote is a dead one.
The other thing I would add about nutrition is that corn while not ideal is better than nothing. Candy bars and McyD's aren't good for us either but in moderation will not kill you. Unless a animal is physically starving it has very good natural instincts about what to and what not to eat. Some of my neighbors put out AlfAlfa bails in the fall. The deer do not touch them until the snow melts. I would add that if I could get the deer chow for the price of corn or even slightly more I would certainly go that route. Thats a product I hope we see in Mi in the near future.

 

[Varmintmist]

I put out a little corn (8.27/100lb) for them to snack on when the show turns to hardpack. Until then let them browse. I'll put out about a 2 gallon bucket twice a week or more. My feeder is a 5 gallon bucket with a 3 inch hole cut in the bottom and tied to a tree. The corn runs out the hole when the deer start kicking the bucket. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Gives them something to do.

Anyone who says that corn isnt good for deer has never seen corn fed deer in the fields compared to mountain deer.

Our deer population in PA was, according to the PA game commission, to high. I never saw the overpopulation. All of the deer I saw were healthy, and there were not enough deer on my pproperty. I know that because I have a lot of poison ivy. Deer eat poison ivy. To much ivy = not enough deer. Per the state forester that I had out to my place.

Anyway, the PAGC started a deer slaughter and the population has been pretty well hammered in most counties. There are not the deer that there was 3 years ago. If this keeps up taking the kids hunting in 4 years will be a waste of time.

The PAGC has also started a antler restriction to get bigger racks. Personally I would rather be able to get my kid into a position to shoot a spike then wait 5 years before even seeing a 8 point.

Oh yeah, the antler restriction has so many holes in it that the little buck are getting torn up anyway so it is just a deer elimination plan. Not to mention the deer that are shot and then the hunter sees that the first point was 3/4 of a inch instead of a inch and lets it lay. It isnt right, but the PAGC said a mistake kill would coast a 25 dollar fine. So far no honest mistake that I have read about has cost less than 500. I'd let one lay to for 500.

 

[stevenf]

Varmintmist, If you have a source for fresh corn and its not stored or processed at a feed mill there is nothing wrong with feeding deer corn to draw them in to look at or in Texas so we can blow holes in them as bateing is allowed in Texas. But your comment of feeding them corn was good is unlikely concerning most peoples abilities to buy clean unstored and unprocessed corn which is where the problem lies. Corn contains many things after storing in the form of parasites and deseases that are bad for deer and corn doesn't supply the nutrients required to keep them healthy although they like it and they'll eat it just like a kid eating candy. Here is a USDA site" http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap41.html " that goes into the problems of aflatoxins it goes on to talk about a lot on the subject and if you do a google search for it you will undoubtedly agree that its important to store all feeds properly the reason corn is especially bad is it is most often stored improperly and according to USDA findings it is used for deer corn many times as a result of having been found to contain aflatoxins and failed to meet human consumpsion guidelines. The reason goat feed is safer is it turns over quicker and is stored indoors whereas lots of retailers store corn outside where the bags get wet and mildewy as well and the goat feed also contains the nutrients needed to sustain life not just giving them a treat. My point also is at least here in Texas corn cost roughly $5.50 a bag and goat feed that does contain all the vitamins and minerals needed for the deer to exist even if it didn't eat anything else cost the same or slightly less why not feed them the goat feed if your concern has anything to do with their health over the long term. Yes deer will eat corn until there is not a speck left, is it good for them no, for sure not especially if your trying to help them survive. My hunters use corn to get them in close to shoot them but when I feed I use a mixture of goat feed, minerals blocks designed especially for deer and food plots that I have planted by hand in the past that this year I'll be doing with a tractor. In response to the folks who don't agree with feeding all I can say is I'm sorry I do own a ranch where paid hunters help put food on our table so the healthier, heavier antlered deer bring in the best money so I make sure mine are eating right. As for the predators being gone we have 2 mountain lions that call our ranch home the hunters are forbidden to shoot them. That said most of the wild predators are gone but I'd say in place of Wolves and Mountain Lions humanity has introduced their own brand of predator and it hunts at night with tires instead of paws and if you don't keep an eye on fido you'll have the same problem that one of our neighbors has she lost 200 lambs last year alone to packs of wild dogs and most of them have collars on and you can bet a fair amount go home to their owners when the're thru hunting alas the predators are back they just sleep under the truck instead of in a cave.
Steve

 

[DaMadman]

Junkman, I agree with you 100% on never moving to Maryland. It is so dang overpopulated were I live it takes approx an hour to an hour and a half to get a seat for dinner at any resteraunt within 25 miles of my house on a Friday or Saturday night. People packed on top of more people and it really makes me ill to see some of the old homestead farms that have been on a family for 150 years turned into 100's of $400,000 homes.

I wasn't trying to condemn anyone that feeds deer. Like I said I have thought about it myself but just don't because I have seen what i does to the populations and then things just get worse from there.

There is a subdivision right down the road from me where there are at least 4 herds of deer ranging in size from 20 to 30 deer each roaming peoples back yards. When the people first moved in, they thought it was great to see the deer eating in the back yards and feeding them was great because they could watch the deer even more. Now the people can't have shrubs or gardens or fruit trees and have even had prblems with bucks during Rut horning up the side of thier cars.

Honestly wasn't putting anyone down for feeding the deer. Just trying to share some of the problems I have seen arise from it.

Just so you know what you were saying about Maryland is truth. I don't see it being long before you will have to go to a museum around here to see a deer or a tree, it is really getting that bad and that is the reason I am looking at moving the heck out of here within the next 5 to 10 year. If it weren't for certain ties to the area I might already be gone.

 

[Varmintmist]

Steve, the corn I get is from a feed mill. It is critter grade and does not sit outside. I dont think I would eat it as the rat poop per lb would be a bit high /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[stevenf]

Varmintmist, Whats wrong with a little rat poop the FDA has an allowable portion for all Human consumption food products.
ew its doo! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

Steve,

Unless a deer is vastly different than a cow and I'm not sure about that, corn is very good for them. The toxins you talk about are a reality but that is in moldy corn. You don't get the toxins in most corn. If the corn looks moldy or smells bad then don't feed it. I hate to tell you but the primary ingredient in every processed feedstuff is corn, even dogfood. As a food source corn is an excellent source of carbohydrates and a medium source of protein. The next best feedstuff if you're feeding grain is oats. Oats are higher in protein and have less carbohydrates. Every feedlot in the country uses corn in probably 80-90% of the cows grain diet. The rest is added protein, vitamins, minerals, and some oats, but mostly corn. The protein is what will give your deer the nice antlers but they will get big and fat on corn just as easily as they will oats.