farmers world
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Sure is real nice having all this great fianancing too,O DOWN FIANANCE YOUR OWN.
FarmTrac Troubles
- Thread starter gamble77
- Start date
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bluechip
Veteran Member
Remember "the factory" is not Farmtrac Tarboro (except loader parts) Parts are already available through Montana for the compact series and it has been reported that LS is already talking about a plan to support warranty on thier tractors. I'll be very surprised if Escorts parts arn't made available by some enterprising third party (Maybe Textron could give them a loan to stock up
). In the mean time there are a lot of parts scattered around the country (some might be attached to new tractors!). I think if we wait for this situation to get "standardized" we will be selling antique tractors.
Most of these tractors won't need warranty work anyway, the few that do will have to be delt with on a case by case basis. I have told my prospective customers that they could experience some delays in parts in the short term until a parts supply chain is developed, but there are enough units on the ground in the states to make a parts operation very feasable and profitable. The manufacturer is still in business so parts are being made, we just need a supply line to the factory in India.
The customer can consider this risk because they are getting a tractor below dealer cost, cheaper than most brands, even well used ones and are comparable in price to chinese tractors that have no organized parts or service network either. In fact I have imported and sold hundreds of chinese tractors with minimum warranty and our Farmtracs are certainly built to a higher standard than some of the chinese product I have dealt in.
These tractors are a great opportunity for the right buyer (fully informed of course). Frankly, postings decrying problems performing warranty work that haven't even happened on this public forum are less than helpful. This is not a dealer only forum. We can spin this situation so negatively and our competitors will make this so gloomy that no one will buy or finance one of these tractors (at less than $10.00 /cwt anyway).
Anyway, I read some language in the warranty paperwork that provides for replacement product if the warranty repair cannot be completed. Not sure what that means and I need to read it again. In any case, I"d rather sell a few of these and risk cannabalizing an unsold unit or buying back one that I couldnt fix for a customer than keeping them ALL and eventually having Textron force me into bankruptcy.
Don't get me wrong, I think Textron needs to do more to help this situation and I hope that they will. In the end, it would not only reduce the tremendous loss they will eventually realize, but could curtail a lot of legal expenses for everyone over the next few years. For now, I feel the warranty is a positive step in that direction. If we can get Textron to work more with us, instead of setting ourselves up as adversaries maybe we can get this done and over with. Having farmtrac dealers in business adds value to the inventory that they hold as collateral.
The way I see it, we can either sell these tractors, at whatever price the market will bare, and have some control over the timing of our losses or Textron will scoop them up, auction them off and come after each of us for the deficency, eventually puttng many good people into bankruptcy.
If there is another alternative, please let me know what it is (by PM if necessary).
). In the mean time there are a lot of parts scattered around the country (some might be attached to new tractors!). I think if we wait for this situation to get "standardized" we will be selling antique tractors.Most of these tractors won't need warranty work anyway, the few that do will have to be delt with on a case by case basis. I have told my prospective customers that they could experience some delays in parts in the short term until a parts supply chain is developed, but there are enough units on the ground in the states to make a parts operation very feasable and profitable. The manufacturer is still in business so parts are being made, we just need a supply line to the factory in India.
The customer can consider this risk because they are getting a tractor below dealer cost, cheaper than most brands, even well used ones and are comparable in price to chinese tractors that have no organized parts or service network either. In fact I have imported and sold hundreds of chinese tractors with minimum warranty and our Farmtracs are certainly built to a higher standard than some of the chinese product I have dealt in.
These tractors are a great opportunity for the right buyer (fully informed of course). Frankly, postings decrying problems performing warranty work that haven't even happened on this public forum are less than helpful. This is not a dealer only forum. We can spin this situation so negatively and our competitors will make this so gloomy that no one will buy or finance one of these tractors (at less than $10.00 /cwt anyway).
Anyway, I read some language in the warranty paperwork that provides for replacement product if the warranty repair cannot be completed. Not sure what that means and I need to read it again. In any case, I"d rather sell a few of these and risk cannabalizing an unsold unit or buying back one that I couldnt fix for a customer than keeping them ALL and eventually having Textron force me into bankruptcy.
Don't get me wrong, I think Textron needs to do more to help this situation and I hope that they will. In the end, it would not only reduce the tremendous loss they will eventually realize, but could curtail a lot of legal expenses for everyone over the next few years. For now, I feel the warranty is a positive step in that direction. If we can get Textron to work more with us, instead of setting ourselves up as adversaries maybe we can get this done and over with. Having farmtrac dealers in business adds value to the inventory that they hold as collateral.
The way I see it, we can either sell these tractors, at whatever price the market will bare, and have some control over the timing of our losses or Textron will scoop them up, auction them off and come after each of us for the deficency, eventually puttng many good people into bankruptcy.
If there is another alternative, please let me know what it is (by PM if necessary).
SESS
Gold Member
Tommy your right that the dealers are not offering any negative to this thread that is not already public knowledge. Normally I do not like to air my dirty laundry for all to know, BUT the buying public needs to know what they are investing their hard earned money in. Yes they are getting a great tractor that normally does not have many warranty parts, but these tractors are man made. There are going to be warranty claims regardless of how great the units are. That is just simple fact. A $200K Bentley could have warranty claims just as easy as a $20K Farmtrac or a $20K deere. I do not see us being able to honestly sell a tractor without making sure that the buyer is fully aware of what they are getting into. Because IF and WHEN they do have a parts issue, we are going to look really bad when we tell the customer at that point once they have already paid their money and Textron has been satisfied with the purchase price, that "we can't get the parts", etc. If the buyer is completely informed and they continue with the purchase, then alls well. But the buyer should be given a discount for not having a "perfect" situation to buy into also. Why have the customer buy a product with a tarnished name with the same price that they could have bought last summer when there wasn't any issues (that we knew of!). That is just my 2 cents! I would like nothing more than to sell all of mine this month, pay off Textron and be done. But I do not see that happening with the economy the way that it is.
Hello everyone!
One thing we know is... the parts issue is (and has been since 01/18/08) a lynchpin to the ability of dealers to not only service existing customers, but obtaining alternate forms of financing and subsequent sales of units to the public.
Here's another thing we know is... given recent statements, receiver Marrow does not believe this is an issue.
1) "We have $1.8 million dollars of parts in stock." He forgets dollar amt is a quantitative measure (10 lbs of fecal matter and 10 lbs of gold both weigh the same amt... but which would you prefer to have?). Tractor hoods or seats may be expensive, but are seldom used... In contrast, oil filters, belts and maybe certain drive train gears(?) are perishables that are rapidly turned over -- subsequently depleted from stock.
Perishables are probably gone or almost gone at present.
***I want to hear from Farmtrac dealers on this!****
E-mail me at bob_benedetti@hotmail.com and post your reply on this site so everyone will know!
2) "The dealers know much more about that than I do." It was in the context of dealer experience... knowledge and how to improvise. Funny thing... if you're the CEO of a company (by default due to court ruling), then doesn't logic dictate that you'd work to overcome the **largest sticking point** that your retailers have to date?
***
Regarding the resourcefulness that Marrow eluded to and "bluechip" cited in a recent post ... in a more concise fashion it could be interpreted as saying "best take actions into your own hands, dealers... and figure out alternative solutions to the parts issue."
Makes complete sense... otherwise, you're going down without a lifeboat.
WHAT TO DO?
I also interpreted previous statements/postings as meaning this:
Create an "alternative manufacturer(s)" parts list... a comprehensive cross-reference system that will permit Farmtrac dealers to complete circumvent the Company Store and *any* dependancy on Farmtrac for parts.
Granted, it'd be a major undertaking... esp since time is already the dealer's enemy.
Some quickhit thoughts on a few possible methods for such a project:
- have one person be the "project manager" to keep the comprehensive list
- start with the most highly used parts
- have each dealership volunteer to figure out certain parts/models
(A way to use the dealers' collective knowledge pool.)
Hope that helps.
Thx,
--blueliner
One thing we know is... the parts issue is (and has been since 01/18/08) a lynchpin to the ability of dealers to not only service existing customers, but obtaining alternate forms of financing and subsequent sales of units to the public.
Here's another thing we know is... given recent statements, receiver Marrow does not believe this is an issue.
1) "We have $1.8 million dollars of parts in stock." He forgets dollar amt is a quantitative measure (10 lbs of fecal matter and 10 lbs of gold both weigh the same amt... but which would you prefer to have?). Tractor hoods or seats may be expensive, but are seldom used... In contrast, oil filters, belts and maybe certain drive train gears(?) are perishables that are rapidly turned over -- subsequently depleted from stock.
Perishables are probably gone or almost gone at present.
***I want to hear from Farmtrac dealers on this!****
E-mail me at bob_benedetti@hotmail.com and post your reply on this site so everyone will know!
2) "The dealers know much more about that than I do." It was in the context of dealer experience... knowledge and how to improvise. Funny thing... if you're the CEO of a company (by default due to court ruling), then doesn't logic dictate that you'd work to overcome the **largest sticking point** that your retailers have to date?
***
Regarding the resourcefulness that Marrow eluded to and "bluechip" cited in a recent post ... in a more concise fashion it could be interpreted as saying "best take actions into your own hands, dealers... and figure out alternative solutions to the parts issue."
Makes complete sense... otherwise, you're going down without a lifeboat.
WHAT TO DO?
I also interpreted previous statements/postings as meaning this:
Create an "alternative manufacturer(s)" parts list... a comprehensive cross-reference system that will permit Farmtrac dealers to complete circumvent the Company Store and *any* dependancy on Farmtrac for parts.
Granted, it'd be a major undertaking... esp since time is already the dealer's enemy.
Some quickhit thoughts on a few possible methods for such a project:
- have one person be the "project manager" to keep the comprehensive list
- start with the most highly used parts
- have each dealership volunteer to figure out certain parts/models
(A way to use the dealers' collective knowledge pool.)
Hope that helps.
Thx,
--blueliner
The "Less Than Zero" rip off has already harmed the reputation of Farmtrac dealers ( no fault of their own, I might add). The damage that can happen with a warranty and no parts availability would cause the Farmtrac dealers to be in danger of being tarred and feathered, then lynched. Many a good and honest dealer has had his name and reputation smeared just by believing in the Farmtrac brand........then being blindsided by this mess. The "Less Than Zero" debacle will be one thing that MUST be addressed before there can be any real progress in regaining the trust of the tractor-buying public.
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SESS
Gold Member
tommybr said:
Used equipment! No warranty, no financing and no floorplan company!
California
Super Star Member
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Ok, here's a draft business model to discuss and refine into something useful:
Sell the tractors as new with warranty, cannibalizing your other units if needed to fulfill the warranty. But if possible make it a very limited warranty same as on the Chinese tractors. You need to conform to State warranty laws.
Be prepared to buy back some unrepairable tractors. Those can honestly be resold as Used, with no warranty obligation.
Provide full disclosure!!! Maybe give a printed copy of this thread to prospective buyers, or other disclosure documents if available. You need customers who are going into this fully informed. Some Chinese tractor buyers make their own parts at home. That's the sort of customer you need to find for those unrepairable buybacks.
There are probably repeat customers out there impressed with the quality and willing to buy under these conditions if the price is far below last year's retail or anything else on the market.
From what I'm reading here it doesn't sound like waiting for some unseen force to come along and make these tractors worth what you owe on them, by arranging free warranty parts or reimbursing the LessThanZero customers, is a useful strategy. I hope I'm wrong on this.
Sell the tractors as new with warranty, cannibalizing your other units if needed to fulfill the warranty. But if possible make it a very limited warranty same as on the Chinese tractors. You need to conform to State warranty laws.
Be prepared to buy back some unrepairable tractors. Those can honestly be resold as Used, with no warranty obligation.
Provide full disclosure!!! Maybe give a printed copy of this thread to prospective buyers, or other disclosure documents if available. You need customers who are going into this fully informed. Some Chinese tractor buyers make their own parts at home. That's the sort of customer you need to find for those unrepairable buybacks.
There are probably repeat customers out there impressed with the quality and willing to buy under these conditions if the price is far below last year's retail or anything else on the market.
From what I'm reading here it doesn't sound like waiting for some unseen force to come along and make these tractors worth what you owe on them, by arranging free warranty parts or reimbursing the LessThanZero customers, is a useful strategy. I hope I'm wrong on this.
Let me again emphasize the point that I believe Mr. Marrow and Mr. Gurkins to be honorable men. I, for one, will be very interested to read the report that is brought back to the Judge from the Court Appointed Reciever if it becomes public record. Both of these gentlemen were appointed by the court system of North Carolina and are working for the Judge who appointed them. They have had a difficult job, to say the least. they were brought in to clean up the mess.........they did not cause the mess.
Farmtrac was very careful to tell the dealers very plainly that the "Less than Zero" financing was a contract between the customer and Farmtrac and the only place the dealer's signiture appears on the contract is as a witness to the customer's signiture.........so the dealer is in no way responsible for the rebate checks. However, it is still mighty embarassing to have someone come up to the dealer at a local restaurant while eating breakfast and confront him with the fact that the checks are not coming to the customers as promised by Farmtrac ( which, by the way, has happened to me personally). The dealers were told to emphasize this program and promote it.....so many of them did. The dealers, I repeat, were innocent in this fraud.
There is truth in each of the last few posts.Fact:the dealers, Textron,Mr. Marrow or the farmtrac customers did not create this problem.Fact:we are the ones who must deal with it. there have been many ideas put forth, some great,some good ,some not so good. it is up to us to find which works for us. the thing that is working for our company right now is the truth and honesty we have always given our customer friends. we brief them on the farmtrac situation, answer ALL their questions that we have knowledge of, concerning warranty and parts issues which may later arise.we pledge our very best effort to see that the trust they place in our company and the product has been well placed.we offer NO discounts,and in fact have found customers to be most understanding of the fact, we must make a profit to be able to fullfill our obligations. our company has sold 2 (two ) tractorsW/loaders in as many days and have several more solid leads working. I solemley promise each of my dealer friends, I will NEVER,NEVER quit until justice is done in this matter to those who have profited at the expense of hardworking,honest people.In the meantime,Let all the dealers in the US,somehow come together in a solid group and figure ways to help each other sell tractors,exchange ideas and save our businesses, so we can continue to provide the excellent service to our customers, as farmtrac dealers have always done.Even if the brand shall fail, we should not, it is our choice,it has been our choice ever since we decided to be dealers and I would hate to think I allowed it to be otherwise.----Taxpayer
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SESS
Gold Member
Did each dealer get their Monday update today? Send me a PM with your email if you did not get it and I will send it to you!
AlanB
Elite Member
Just a very, very outside idea, and I have no dog in this hunt other then I cannot imagine what it would be like to be a dealer.
I would think it would have come up, but have you dealers thought about banding together and buying up the defunkt business yourselves?
While I am sure there would be a tremendous risk, it may be one way to come out of this mess. Although the other side is it may be out of the frying pan, into the fire?
In effect you would end up being employee owners, I believe Harley employees did a similar action to get their company back on better footing.
Somewhat reminds me of one of my favorite sayings, "individualists of the world, UNITE" but it may be an option worth considering.
I would think it would have come up, but have you dealers thought about banding together and buying up the defunkt business yourselves?
While I am sure there would be a tremendous risk, it may be one way to come out of this mess. Although the other side is it may be out of the frying pan, into the fire?
In effect you would end up being employee owners, I believe Harley employees did a similar action to get their company back on better footing.
Somewhat reminds me of one of my favorite sayings, "individualists of the world, UNITE" but it may be an option worth considering.
My solution is to simply walk away........sell another brand of tractors.......turn everything over to my lawyer........and on with life...this is to big a problem for me to solve.......sell red tractors and let the briars and kudzoo vines cover up the blue ones until I can't see them anymore.
DavesTractor
Elite Member
As a dealer myself (Mahindra and Branson) I really feel for you guys. One idea if a dealer had just a few left, he could make them into rental tractors. You know that there will be a way to get parts, and if you owned the units yourself, it would be no big deal if it took 10 days or even 30 days to get a part. Earn a few thousand off of each then sell them reasonably as used tractors. Just an idea.
SESS
Gold Member
We have thought about rentals for the tractors but the liability insurance is so high here in FLA that it didnt make it feasible. So, they are dust collectors for the time being!
Shannon
New member
It looks like I got an email yesterday from Farmtrac that had "parts for farmtrac utiltiy tractors" in the description .... My spam blocker erased it. If some has it would you please forward it to me at trucksunlimited@earthlink.net ...... (I'm guessing it doesn't say anything but that their working on it).
I have three LG tractors on my lot. Not too worried about warranty issues with these. I sold two indian tractors last week and they seem to be doing fine. I have an 8075 cab, FEL. I don't have a clue how to move this one. Regarding the indian tractors.....someone should post a list of which models of the Farmtrac tractors correspond with the appropriate ford model. It might help in a pinch to get a part from A&I or Tisco.
