FarmTrac Troubles

[ToadHill]

When I worked for a while in the insurance industry the saying from the actuaries was " If you don't like my answer we can change the assumptions."

 

[TBDonnelly]

You would think a company doing business in the fiercely competitive compact tractor and diesel engine market would be doing all it could to develop new and innovative products to bring to market and to grow. Without new and better products a company will die a slow death. I'm not saying Daedong is on the road to death. But I like to see a company that is innovative, spending money to develop new products and growing.

It's apparent you're not familiar with Kioti's new offerings of recent years.

It would be in your best interest to do some research before jumping in with both feet.

Anywho, I did notice you're a new poster/member here at TBN. Welcome.

Have a cup of Greene Tea and chill out.

Don

 

[Tim D]

Went to Farmtrac dealer today to get his perspective on current situation. He stated that he smelled a rat in October of last year when he was getting the run a round on parts and warranty work for the 700 series tractors. Getting parts for these tractors was like pulling eye teeth without novacaine. He has not had problems with the Ford or Montana tractors yet and said that he would be able to keep these tractors going one way or another. He had also recently spoken to his former sales rep. who is no longer employed by Farmtrac and the rep. said that it looked as though Montana was going to acquire Farmtrac but he now believes that MTD may get it. He stated that we may know more details from the first to middle of March. It's a shame that this has to happen to good people like the dealer I have and to the people who put there faith in this company. Hope it works out.

 

[a blurr]

Ned,
You sound like the typical bean counter. Engineers are also good at making things look good or bad on paper but when it comes to the real thing sometimes it's just different. I guess most people are glad that Kubota did not listen to the bean counters. I know the dealer near us is! You must remember that Kioti has only been in the states for about 20 Years and they just became fully owned by the factory a few years ago.
As far as coming up with new product when did the "green" co. last come out with a new product of their own?? Maybe it was the Plough.

 

[Ned Farlinger]

Ned,
You sound like the typical bean counter. Engineers are also good at making things look good or bad on paper but when it comes to the real thing sometimes it's just different. I guess most people are glad that Kubota did not listen to the bean counters. I know the dealer near us is! You must remember that Kioti has only been in the states for about 20 Years and they just became fully owned by the factory a few years ago.
As far as coming up with new product when did the "green" co. last come out with a new product of their own?? Maybe it was the Plough.

You've got to be kidding:

John Deere - Press Center

And one of my favorites:

John Deere Utility Vehicle Wins 2008 Finovation Award

Please do a little research before you make a very uniformed statement as you did above, highlighted in Green.

I'm sorry, but your orange brand, while delivering some very good and heavy tractors to the compact tractor market is just not comparable in any way shape or form to JD OR Kubota. Anytime someone says anything regarding Kioti someone else says something like "well Kubota started like just like Kioti" or maybe "Kioti has been around 20 years in the USA and is the next Kubota". Kioti is not Kubota and very well may never be. They have been around this country for 20 years or so but many dealers keep coming and going. How much longer will that continue?

I'm not saying Daedong will perish, they seem to have found a niche and they have been here much longer than Montana, Farmtrac, TYM, etc... I'm also not saying they produce shoddy tractors, on the contrary the products look great and there are a lot of very happy customers and some very good dealers (Wallace) out there. Kioti will surely find a way to at least maintain their current market share and with new and innovative products and strong dealers the company may grow. But Kubota, AGCO, CNH, JD, even Mahindra will not standstill and wait on Kioti. There will be more new companies that will want to bring their tractors to the US market to test the waters as well. So, Kioti growing to any significant size in this country will be a very difficult task, perhaps impossible.

I'm not bashing a brand so please don't take it that way.

 

[a blurr]

Ned.
No one said you were bashing. I believe from when I worked at the "green" they were teamed with BRP for development of the utility vehicle you are talking about. That new design first apeared in 2003 or 04 if I remember correctly. That was the same time they also brought out their "new" ATV.

 

[HayDR]

There are 95 million head of cattle in the USA. Those cattle are not going away the must be fed and cared for. But this next statistic will show you why Mahindra has a sound target market philosophy. 50 million of those cattle are on farms of 125 acres or less and are also in herds of 50 cows or less. This means that most of these operators will have a hard time justifying a $60,000 tractor. These operators usually use utility tractors from 35-85 PTO HP. Mahindra is one of the dominate players in this segment. Mahindra's products are great values for this segment.

Farmtrac's products did not let them down but their management caused all the problems. Once Long MFG had over 60 dealers in KY & TN. What happened that all these dealers left Long? Just ask them. 25% are no longer in business so that means that leaves 75% are still selling tractors of some type.

Mahindra's dealer network has been going in the other direction of Farmtrac's dealer network for years. There are many reason why. Anyone that equates Mahindra with Farmtrac is mis-informed.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Need we be reminded that what we are talking about has been NORMAL in the tractor business for years, good market or bad. If your not buying a Kubota, Deere, CNH, or AGCO brand tractor I'd have to say your taking some level of risk. Farmtrac is not the first, and won't be the last. The last shake up was at Brandson just a few months ago. This happens all the time.

I think the financials of Deadong are very revealing. Without looking at a company on this level your never going to know what their real long term staying power is... reguardless of what you may think of their product. At this time, CNH and Deere are reporting record profits and sales growth. Its concerning if this young company is not keeping pace.

 

[a blurr]

CNH and JD record profit are because of the large AG Equipment. Got nothing to do with tractors.
(100Hp and below)

 

[TBDonnelly]

I think the financials of Deadong are very revealing. Without looking at a company on this level your never going to know what their real long term staying power is... reguardless of what you may think of their product. At this time, CNH and Deere are reporting record profits and sales growth. Its concerning if this young company is not keeping pace.

You've been attacking Kioti for years with your 'sky is falling' montra. Kioti just keeps putting their best foot forward with new well designed products. Looking at their farm show presence this year........Kioti is moving their act forward with BIG steps.

Don

 

[Ned Farlinger]

You've been attacking Kioti for years with your 'sky is falling' montra. Kioti just keeps putting their best foot forward with new well designed products. Looking at their farm show presence this year........Kioti is moving their act forward with BIG steps.

Don

Not according to the Daedong financial statements. Revenue from ops is not supporting big steps. To grow the company (those BIG steps you refer to) the company seems to look outside to raise cash which means selling pieces of the company or issuing debt which will have to be serviced. See the remarks preceding the cash flow statement.

The feel good statement regarding BIG steps, while sounding good, has no substantive back up.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Not according to the Daedong financial statements. Revenue from ops is not supporting big steps. To grow the company (those BIG steps you refer to) the company seems to look outside to raise cash which means selling pieces of the company or issuing debt which will have to be serviced. See the remarks preceding the cash flow statement.

The feel good statement regarding BIG steps, while sounding good, has no substantive back up.

You would have to understand where Kioti has been to see where there going. See what you want.

Don

 

[Ned Farlinger]

You would have to understand where Kioti has been to see where there going. See what you want.

Don

I see what it is. It's very clear (black and white) where they are. Actually, there is little relevance as to where they came from. The current market doesn't care but it might make for a nice, nostalgic laced story for some of their long time customers sitting around the parts counter.

 

[TBDonnelly]

I see what it is. It's very clear (black and white) where they are. Actually, there is little relevance as to where they came from. The current market doesn't care but it might make for a nice, nostalgic laced story for some of their long time customers sitting around the parts counter.

All is well in Greeneville. Have a good day.

Don

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Congrats Ned for doing your homework and posting one of the most informed and thought out things thats been put up here in a long time.

 

[albmn10]

I wouldnt say that 2006 statments on Daedongs lack of innovation is well thought out. You forgot to add 2007 statements which shows a new long term partnership with Bobcat and Daedong . Which will basically add to the already 250 plus dealer ( Kioti ) nationwide dealer network to probably double that over the next year. So id say it will give some of their old time customers twice as many dealers now to discuss their (nostalgic laced stories ) at.. These are just cheap shots that have no place on TBN....

 

[DavesTractor]

Any news on FarmTrac lately?

 

[Ned Farlinger]

I wouldnt say that 2006 statments on Daedongs lack of innovation is well thought out. You forgot to add 2007 statements which shows a new long term partnership with Bobcat and Daedong . Which will bascially add to the already 250 plus dealer ( Kioti ) nationwide dealer network to probably double that over the next year. So id say it will give some of their old time customers twice as many dealers now to discuss their (nostalgic laced stories ) at.. These are just cheap shots that have no place on TBN....

I was absolutely not taking any cheap shots at Kioti, not at all. I made some comments based on Daedong's own financial statements and what my impressions are of the company without bashing the company, dealers or the product. I would say there are some forum members that let emotion overshadow the realities of Daedong in the compact tractor marketplace.

Regarding the Bobcat re-badging, at this point the market penetration of the re-badged tractors is minuscule at best. And remember, these are Bobcat dealers, not Kioti dealers. These re-badged tractors are but a small piece of their product offerings, they do not have to give them their full attention and most likely will not. I would not count on Bobcat dealers lighting the world on fire with some re-badged Kioti's part time. Full line, full time, stable Kioti dealers have to move the product for this company to succeed.

 

[Ned Farlinger]

Back to Farmtrac as Dave indicated:

This is really too bad, these are good tractors. This is a very tough market in what are tough times right now:

Farmtrac Tractors

 

[bluechip]

I don't know how this thread got diverted to KIOTI. I am a dealer for both (or was) and I can tell you first hand there is NO comparison between these companies and how they operate. I have seen NO evidence of financial woes with KIOTI, warranty claims and CO OP advertising reimbursements are creditied almost imediately and refunds of credit balance accounts happin in a matter of days, not weeks.

As for Farmtrac, a court reciever has been appointed and apparently negotiations continue with interested parties.