FACTORY 4210 4310 4410 MANUAL IS FUNNY...NOT

[JDgreen227]

"That comfort is dangerous".

WELL STATED. I have been using portable and stationary power tools and chain saws and numerous other dangerous equipment for 40 plus years. For the most part I am still a little scared of using them but I still have all ten fingers and toes and both hands, feet and eyes. When the day arrives that I cease being afraid THAT is the day I am most likely to get hurt.

 

[del]

cowboydoc,

I started to slip into unconsciousness waiting on hold for
Deere corporate so I emailed them through their website, will
advise if something turns up.

If it was a misprint, why would it be in the manual after
2 years without a note on an addendum page? (to list corrections
needed after manual was first printed)?

Boggles the mind.

Am not going to bother the dealer with this, he didn't write
the manual. Everytime we talk we both go off on something and
end up laughing and forgetting about what we were talking
about. Nice guy.

del

 

[cowboydoc]

Well I'm not sure why you would criticize so much then if you haven't even tryed to get it explained. I know I sure looked like a horses rear a few times in school when I thought I knew what a textbook was saying. I was pretty embarrassed when I found out that what I thought something meant was 180 degrees opposite from what it really meant.

I've always had great luck with John Deere customer service and with my dealer. Deere will have an engineer call you to explain things if you aren't understanding something.

 

[del]

Because to me it's pretty cut and dried, and I did try
calling corporate when I first read it.

There is a simple chart that shows tractor ballast require
ments for tread width above 59 inches and below 59 inches.
When you look at the "above 59 inch" line it has what to
use as 3pt ballast if you are using wheel weights or are
using tire ballast.

If you look at the "tread width under 59" line it says
twice "LOADER USE NOT APPROVED"

Pictures in all 3 of the manuals show "tread width" is the
distance from center to center on the rear wheels.

In a "Selecting Tread Width" chart in the operators manual
it shows all the widths you can get with your tractor depending on what tire/wheel combo you have.

For R1s it shows up to 54". With R4's it shows 42 one way
and 43.8" with the wheels flipped. I have yet to see a tractor
on a lot with R4's with the wheels flipped even to get the 1.8"
difference as it makes the tire stems more difficult to get
to.

It seems pretty simple to me but that's why I asked the question
here as there are a lot of 42 43 44 owners who have the same
manual I do, so far no one has said you need to read.....somewhere else in the manual.

I'm not a glutton for punishment but I would LOVE for someone
to show me I am reading this wrong and cause mass laughter
on the forum!

My complaint is not about the tractor.

If this is ballasted properly it should be just fine if operated safely.(I HOPE)
My problem is buying something for a particular use and then
reading it isn't approved for that use.

Deere could very easily put that in the sales brochure instead
of showing pictures of narrow tracked, R4 equipped tractors
with loaders.

In the above mentioned chart it's just BLANK where the 3 point
ballast weight should be listed because LOADER USE IS NOT
APPROVED. Wouldn't it be better to say "LOADER USE NOT APPPROVED"
but if you DO use a loader add wheel weights, add tire ballast
AND add the 7 8 900 whatever to the 3 point? That way you
relieved yourself of responsibility but still offer some
safety suggestions.

On the 4210 the R4's cannot be jacked out past 43.8 inches
and the R1's only to 54.7. Maybe the R1s on the 4310's can
be, but certainly not the R4s and every dealer I've talked
to in the past couple of years have said he R4's are the
most popular tire. Any Deere dealers tell anyone they weren't approved for loader use on your 4310 4410?

I WANT Deere to keep selling small tractors, as I want Kubota
to as well. Producing sales flyers showing uses for the
tractors that are accepted by the public as normal but that
Deere only after the sale tells you the tractor is not
approved for is just wrong.

This is too dumb of a toe stubbing mistake for such a big
company to do.

I notice in your profile you have some big tractors, would
you have been shocked if you got home with your purchase and
read USE OF A DISK OR CULTIVATOR ON THIS 3 POINT IS NOT APPROVED?

del

more snow today, too much to work the dirt, too little to
have fun plowing...

 

[cowboydoc]

I notice in your profile you have some big tractors, would
you have been shocked if you got home with your purchase and
read USE OF A DISK OR CULTIVATOR ON THIS 3 POINT IS NOT APPROVED?



Yes I would have and the first thing I would have done was to be on the phone with the dealer and see what was up. My second call would to JD corporate. In fact I've done this in the past. All involved were very helpful, professional, and got the problems solved. That's my point. If there is a problem here or if the manual is as you say then I would sure want to get a straight answer before I got so mad I couldn't think of anything to say besides swear words.

 

[del]

I'm not mad, and wasn't.

I don't know if it was the LOADER NOT APPROVED statement
or the

'RUN THE ENGINE UP TO FULL RPM IF THE OIL LIGHT DOESN'T GO
OUT' MISPRINT

but my response would STILL be "WHAT THE ______" if I read
something so goofy, in fact I think I was laughing after I
read the oil light instructions.

I've been dealing with funny Japanese translations for 35
years and assumed the engine section was written overseas
and not read here.

How else could it end up uncorrected for 2 years in a manual?

If you read down you can see what they have done is switch
the two statements, if the charge light doesn't go out you
rev the engine, not shut it off and seek help.

I've been around tractors and mechanical devices for awhile,
none of this affects my use of the tractor. I just don't like
to see a company so lax in its manuals it doesn't correct
something like this. Most people would ignore such a statement
no matter what the book said but there are some new folks
that might not.

If you are associating swearing with anger it's a mistake. The
other day I found a dead bird that had flown into a window.

I also said "What the _____"

I wasn't mad then either.

I can't write the word as you have already sent me an
abrupt email advising me I can't use that word that
describes the location that Christians say some of us will go to
after death.

Nobody is mad here, except maybe you because I said something
against Deere.

If I feel they deserve to be brought to task I'll say it,
because I want them to continue to be successful with these
small tractors.

These are just opinions and everyone is free to ignore them.
I've also told people here and in "real" life how much I like
my Kubota and my Ford, the good points and the bad.

Like I've said before I'd love to combine all of them into
to a pie and have the tractor I want!

dig on!

del

 

[yellowsocks93]

Del,

As probably the youngest member of TBN I don't really feel offended by you writing in blanks for swear words. Working in a shop it's all I hear and even in school there is a lot of swearing. Everybody swears these days so now I guess it's just a part of life. Sometimes you just have to block it out from hearing. I don't swear that much and try not to. I'm NOT saying swearing is right and everybody should swear but we just gotta get over it and move on. In my opinion JD has the best manuals out there compared to other brands of equipment.

 

[del]

YELLOWSOCKS,

I am more likely to "swear" if I find something totally
absurd more then when I am angry at something.

I've been around fellows that make it a part of seemingly
every sentence. I've seen it used on many forums though
where someone will write d*** which is the method I used.

I tried to post the email I got admonishing me for doing
this but it was deleted each time. If I had seen an
email like that myself I would have known that even X***
is not acceptable here.

The email I got was more of the tone that I'd yelled out
something in church.

Then I got a great email from a (now) oldtimer on this
board Harv. What a friendly guy he is, even remembered
me! I'm happy to follow whatever guidelines, rules etc
there are, if I know them.

One thing I really like about the Deere manual is that
it uses pictures which I think many times work far better
then a drawing. I just was struck that this manual hadn't
been revised or that an error sheet wasn't included.

It's just about impossible to produce a document or book
without errors creeping in that you don't see even when you
are proofreading it. Sooner or later someone will point them
out (AFTER YOU'VE GONE TO PRESS...ALWAYS AFTER!) and you simply add a correction page and let the manual
holders doodle in the changes.

It sure helps not having to fly by the seat of your pants
with no manual though!

I noticed that Deere has added a FAQ on their website which
should also help.

thanks

del

 

[JDgreen227]

I am impressed by the lack of swear words in the forums and although the moderators certainly delete most of them, I would like to share something my father told me when I was about twelve years old:

"Son, don't use those words, profanity is the language of the ignorant and uneducated man".

Every time I want to cuss, I try to remember his advice.

 

[yellowsocks93]

My dad told me a similar saying. I wonder if all fathers tell their sons that? I know sometimes the swear words do come out though even when I meant to say something else.

 

[gordon]

I might be going out on a limb here but by the style of writing this is the same del that was a member of tbn since the start and had a ton of posts. ??

Well if it is. How the heck have ya been?

Shame all your other posts dont come up, the old ones. Then people would realize real quick that you were only poking fun at the manual and not some nut just trying to muddy the water.

Hope all is well in your neck of the woods
Gordon

 

[JerryG]

Gordon,
I think that your are right, that this is same del that was with us a long time ago. I don't think that it is the tractors that he is having a problem with either. It is the manual as you said.
Welcome back del.

 

[del]

Gordon and JerryG

Hi Guys

Yep it's me.

Looks like April 2000 was a good year for tractor guys to
register eh?

I originally registered as "del" but promptly forgot my
password and was too embarrassed to ask Muhammad what it
was so I just started posting unregistered as "del..."

Those posts are still there I found some of them when I was
reviewing all the L35 posts and when I got back to 2000 and
2001 there they were. The rest are lost to posterity

Unfortunately I can't search under "del..." to find them
as there are a lot of other posts that have something like
"model..." in them that get in the way. It's fun to go back
and see what I was thinking 3+ years ago.

I'll just have to start blathering all over again!

Probably better they are buried, I'm one of the original
posters that I think get the following response...

"When is this guy going to get to the point?" /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Have been spending time buying additional property and
dealing with county and state officials. Those folks
are making me old and gray before my time I swear. Oops
there I go again. (no swearing) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I learned from posting that only ignorants EVER use a
swear word so I'm going to put that information out to
guys every chance I get, especially strangers that out
size me by about 50%! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Recently I decided "TO /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif WITH IT ALL" (work) and
have been spending more tractor time beating back the bushes,
trying to cut all the downed trees before they rot and
in general having a jolly good time bouncing around on
my green orange blue machines.

Speaking of that funny manual, I just noticed that in the
"Selecting Tread Width" section it says the FRONT track is
wider with the valve stems mounted INWARD, but the REAR
track is wider with the stems mounted OUTWARD.

Hmm, does Deere really do this so one is one way and the other is the other?

Logic would say if you want the track moved IN you put the
stems IN.

I'm not complaining again mind you, just pointing out
something unusual so all you Deere guys please holster
your weapons/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The R4 wheels look visually the same, I'll have to jam my
face down behind there with a tape measure...

It's so great to communicate with all you "2000" oldsters
and meet the new folks. I've learned a lot of things from
this board, the most important was that recall on the early
Kubota BX fuel tanks and 3 point hitches! I never would
have known that.

Del

 

[del]

Re: LOADER NOT APPROVED VS TREAD WIDTH UPDATE.

Yep, manual is backwards on altering rear wheel track, from
the seam or flashing that runs down the center of tire width
is 42.0 inches with the valve stems OUTWARD.

I think part of the reason some of this is confused is they
don't separate out the 24 inch wheels from the smaller 17's
which are different types of wheels.

Front wheels don't have more then one position. Again, they
haven't separated out the 2WD and 4WD in the valve stem position
comments, just lumped all the tires together.

UPDATE:

I received an email from Deere, actually a form email tell-
ing me to contact my dealer who will contact Deere's technical
department for an answer.

I know the dealer has told me the techs he deals with are
top notch. This doesn't affect my use of the tractor one
way or another and I hate to waste his time asking Deere
why their operators manual is so at odds with their sales
presentations.

del

 

[gordon]

Hay to Del and Jerry, if I remember correctly tbn either updated it's server or something of that nature and we all had to re-register that month. Sort of like what happened to some people this past summer from what I understand. Good to see a few oldtimers around.

Jeez Del sounds like you got the standard run around from the big green one.

Gordon