Excavating/grading question

[Jpcjguy]

Hi all,

So I am looking to level out my backyard a bit. It is a 2 acre property and I would build a retaining wall where I am cutting into the ground. Here is an aerial view:

Section A is where I will be taking the dirt and moving it section B. I also want to level out the dip in section B (arrows) The black line in section B will be a 80' 12" pipe for drainage from the tree area to the neighbors yard. BTW, I have never seen any moving water in that area - even in the heaviest rains, I think it is a "just in case". The green line that is 350' is going to be a driveway for the detached garage I am planning to locate where the shed is currently. (Shed will be moved)

Here is a side view of section B:

The red line is the slope I want to achieve - don't want a dip in the driveway to the planned garage.

Here is section A from the patio:

The red lines indicate the "cut" I want to do to get rid of the slope. I am looking at going 4-5' down.

Another angle with area in red affected:

One more angle pic:

So based on this - what kind of equipment should I use? Rent something myself? If so what type/size?
What kind of time frame should this take?
I have received some what I think is ridiculous quotes - anywhere from 15k-25k.

I also found a guy that would do it with his tractor at $85/hr. This is what he has:

His estimate was 2-3 days (only going by my pics and obviously does not account for school bus sized rocks that might be underground.)

What do you all think? First time dealing with this type of job. Oh, I am outside Richmond, VA.

Thanks!

 

[dave1949]

I think the "right" tool would be an excavator plus a bulldozer or a large front-end loader to move the dirt from "A" to "B".

If Area "A" is roughly 4' x 50' x 50' of excavated dirt that is 370 cubic yards of material--about 23 tri-axle dump truck loads--which makes me think the tractor isn't going to dig, move, and grade out that much in 2-3 days.

If you have never seen surface water running across Area "B", I wouldn't put a pipe there. Can you live with a broad gentle dip in the driveway, enough to let any water across? It generally isn't nice to concentrate and direct water flow to a neighbor's land.

Will you be permitted to have a second driveway? See what the retaining wall will cost before creating the need for one. You might be shocked.

Do you have surface water running to your patio from Area "A"?

 

[mx1alex]

12" pipe for an area that has no evidence of surface runoff seems excessive.

 

[Citydude]

If Dave's numbers are correct and I'm sure they are, he's a smart guy, that puts your contractor quote of $15,000 at $40.54 a yard. WTH?

 

[GolfAddict]

Did the quotes include building the wall and the material for it?

 

[Industrial Toys]

Seems like a lot of dirt to move. Go big or go home. Like someone said, excavator and dozer. I did not follow your intentions closely but have done a lot of earth moving lately and much included changing grade.

The problems I kept running into were:

Places to put surplus material
Places to get extra material, sometime the surplus material was not suitable.
When changing a grade, it is often difficult to know where to stop. You can keep getting into bigger and bigger trouble without building retaining walls and that becomes expensive.

When I built my drive shed, the earth moving guy estimated around a thousand bucks or so. It turned into about eight times that! Two hundred truck loads later! And I still have an issue with the grade to the approach to my house, which is now too steep, plus my water lines froze because I removed cover!

 

[Egon]

What's the neighbour think of maybe getting some water?

 

[Jpcjguy]

Thanks for all the responses! Seems the biggest question is the pipe and water run off to the neighbors. That is not an issue.
Here is a pic of the yard during a torrential downpour and you can see the standing water around the trees. This is just in the ruts from the previous owner's ZTR. The ground is compacted and water is not penetrating. I have to fix that also.

Here are more shots of the yard in general:

Here are two recent snow shots that show the melting snow and where the "natural waterway" is. This is where I would put the pipe so that I am not actually changing how the water runs currently.

Where the pipe would go as marked by the arrows:

 

[Jpcjguy]

I think the "right" tool would be an excavator plus a bulldozer or a large front-end loader to move the dirt from "A" to "B".

If Area "A" is roughly 4' x 50' x 50' of excavated dirt that is 370 cubic yards of material--about 23 tri-axle dump truck loads--which makes me think the tractor isn't going to dig, move, and grade out that much in 2-3 days.

If you have never seen surface water running across Area "B", I wouldn't put a pipe there. Can you live with a broad gentle dip in the driveway, enough to let any water across? It generally isn't nice to concentrate and direct water flow to a neighbor's land.

Will you be permitted to have a second driveway? See what the retaining wall will cost before creating the need for one. You might be shocked.

Do you have surface water running to your patio from Area "A"?

dave1949 - thanks for the post - the area to be excavated is not a 4' box per se - it would be probably half that cubic yard - 185 roughly. 4'-5' is the deepest and it slopes down to where I want it. so more of a triangle.
I am ok to have a second driveway - already checked. Retaining wall cost does scare me some. I have built one before and after talking to a supplier, I am looking at about 4k for the blocks. I am afraid what installation would cost....'shudder'....
I also do not have any water running to the patio currently. Surprising considering the current slope down to the patio.

 

[Jpcjguy]

Did the quotes include building the wall and the material for it?

The quotes were just moving dirt!

 

[Industrial Toys]

I bought myself a topcon laser level last year and that thing has paid for itself already. Sometimes you don't realize how much change in grade you are dealing with. Especially usefull for drainage work. You don't go too deep in one spot and then find you have no drop left to get where your are going.

 

[Jpcjguy]

Seems like a lot of dirt to move. Go big or go home. Like someone said, excavator and dozer. I did not follow your intentions closely but have done a lot of earth moving lately and much included changing grade.

The problems I kept running into were:

Places to put surplus material
Places to get extra material, sometime the surplus material was not suitable.
When changing a grade, it is often difficult to know where to stop. You can keep getting into bigger and bigger trouble without building retaining walls and that becomes expensive.

When I built my drive shed, the earth moving guy estimated around a thousand bucks or so. It turned into about eight times that! Two hundred truck loads later! And I still have an issue with the grade to the approach to my house, which is now too steep, plus my water lines froze because I removed cover!

That is why I am thinking of doing this all at once. The excavated dirt from section A would go to section B to fill/level. Little to no trucking dirt in or out.

 

[Egon]

No more comment on culvert as I'm not familiar with your local codes.

Wheeled loader would move your material nicely. Shape your borrow area so patio drainage is provided for and negate the use of a retaining wall. The big boulders? Landscaping plans?

 

[Jpcjguy]

Here is another pic. Ignore the pool. That was speculation that was quickly nixed.

The retaining wall would be halfway between the pool and the two squares above it which are horseshoe pits.
This shot also better highlights my septic lines - so driving heavy equipment over that (bulldozer) is probably not a good idea. My septic lines are about 6' underground. My septic guy says a bobcat or tractor would be fine - no D11 Cat dozers though!
The actual excavating would not be on the septic "fingers". On this pic it would be from the red line (circle) toward the horseshoe pits.

 

[Jpcjguy]

No more comment on culvert as I'm not familiar with your local codes.

Wheeled loader would move your material nicely. Shape your borrow area so patio drainage is provided for and negate the use of a retaining wall. The big boulders? Landscaping plans?

Culvert is more of a "safety valve" - as in if it rained for 30 straight days, water would still flow where it does now and does not create a pond in my front yard.

A wheeled loader would be great - if it could drive over the septic - or around it I guess.

The plan is probably a tiered retaining wall like this:

This is a driveway shot:

At the edge of the house where the mulch, railroad ties, and grass meet is where the retaining wall would begin going out to the far horseshoe pit. I am thinking of replacing the railroad ties around the driveway with stone. The RR tie wall is leaning nicely anyway so I would have to replace it.

 

[dave1949]

Here are two recent snow shots that show the melting snow and where the "natural waterway" is. This is where I would put the pipe so that I am not actually changing how the water runs currently.

I wondered if you were trying to reverse the slope from the patio to Area "A".

The closer you can estimate the material you want to take from "A" and how much you want to add to "B", the better.

One thing you might consider is running the drain at an angle toward the road ditch where your neighbor's drainage ends up. You could pick-up the grade at those four trees where the water runs now and feather that out gradually, then pick-up the grade uphill about half-way to the house from there and bring that down over and past the current low spot to make a new low spot for your drain.

If you have enough material you could come close to a steady gradual up-slope in the driveway probably. For gravel, you don't want so much slope that it washes down in a heavy rain.

Looks like a nice project. I have no idea what a fair price is.

 

[Jpcjguy]

Here is a pic of where the retaining wall (in red) would be. I would either curve it to the driveway or go straight to the walkway going to the patio.

 

[Jpcjguy]

I wondered if you were trying to reverse the slope from the patio to Area "A".

The closer you can estimate the material you want to take from "A" and how much you want to add to "B", the better.

One thing you might consider is running the drain at an angle toward the road ditch where your neighbor's drainage ends up. You could pick-up the grade at those four trees where the water runs now and feather that out gradually, then pick-up the grade uphill about half-way to the house from there and bring that down over and past the current low spot to make a new low spot for your drain.

If you have enough material you could come close to a steady gradual up-slope in the driveway probably. For gravel, you don't want so much slope that it washes down in a heavy rain.

Looks like a nice project. I have no idea what a fair price is.

Not reverse, just cut it down some so that when you step off the patio into the grass you are not climbing an embankment. Area B can hold as much dirt as I can throw at it. I am planning on any dirt coming from Area A to be put in Area B and it will just lessen the "dip" from the back of the property to the road - with the focus being on building up where the driveway would be first.

 

[Citydude]

Sounds like you have the plan. If you can operate a wheeled loader, rent it. You can dig out large rocks if and when encountered. If there a school bus sized rocks, leave them there for landscape appeal. An excavator would get in the way in my opinion. To finish the grade, you could use the tractor guy to do that.

 

[gwiley]

Two things that I have learned by building a road, excavating for a barn and clearing fields that I suggest you meditate on:

1. What look like modest changes in grade can involve HUGE amounts of dirt. It is easy to underestimate how much dirt you will need to move.

2. It is all about cycle time. That long ride between A & B is going to eat up a LOT of seat time. Give careful thought to how long it takes to move each bucket of dirt. You might be near the break point of using a dump truck to save on tractor time.

I live northwest of Richmond and have learned that Virginia has some righteous rocks, as they say the best laid plans "gang aft aigly"