EV owners of today and tomorrow

[Grumpycat]

EVs have 79% more reliability problems than ICE cars, says an article in Consumer Reports.



Widely accepted wisdom has it that electric vehicles are easier to maintain than those with internal combustion powertrains. It seems intuitive—EVs have many fewer moving parts than cars that have to detonate small quantities of hydrocarbon fuel thousands of times a minute. But the data don't really bear out the idea. In fact, according to data collected by Consumer Reports, EVs are significantly less reliable than conventionally powered cars.

CR is known for buying cars for its own test fleet, but for its annual auto reliability survey, the organization cast a wider net. Specifically, it gathered data from 330,000 owners of vehicles from model year 2000 onwards, and it uses that survey data to generate reliability scores for each vehicle and model year.

The results are a little inconvenient for the EV evangelist. EVs had 79 percent more reliability problems than a gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicle, on average. Plug-in hybrids fared even worse; these had 146 percent more issues on average than the conventional alternative.

A similar survey once found red cars had poorer reliability than any other color.

When CU was fair and honest they found the exact same GM 350 V8 in a Camaro or Firebird had poorer reliability than when installed in any other GM vehicle.

Go ahead an lump in the crap produced by everyone but Tesla with Tesla in order to fabricate the sensational article for maximum clicks and views. That is the only way to get the desired result.

Is also well known that any time one changes anything on a product it results in more calls to the helpline. More visits to the dealer service centers. A good example of past decades is how electronic dash and instrument panels are illuminated during the day. As a result fewer drivers think to turn their headlights on when it gets dark, because the dash is already illuminated. In the past they'd turn on the headlights so as to turn on the dash lights but now the dash is lit they don't think/know the headlights are not.

 

[Grumpycat]

It's hard to find historic data on exactly how much Tesla and its buyers have received in federal and state tax credits and incentives, but the number is massive... I saw one source name it at close to $5 billion total, although I personally have my doubts it's that high. Whatever the number, arguing they receive little today, because they've already max'd out many of the program limits, is like suggesting one closes the barn doors after the horse is gone.

Tesla became the leader at least partly because they were in a good position to take advantage of those rebates, before others. Because they were very smart, and focused back in 2015 on the tech they saw as important for 2025, they were able to leverage on those rebates to be where they are today. Others buried their heads in the sand, and are now playing catch-up.

What rebates are you talking about?

There has been an off/on Federal tax credit for EVs. When Tesla burned through their allocation of 200,000 per manufacturer in 2016 it didn't make a dent in their sales. All the while buyers of other EV manufacturers still qualified for the $7500 credit.

As for the clean vehicle credits, Tesla selling their clean vehicle credits allowed other automakers such as RAM to stay in business. Only Tesla's existence allowed RAM to continue to sell vehicles in states following CARB rules. Tesla enabled these so-called "dirty" vehicles.

 

[Grumpycat]

Yes... I sure do! But many such write-offs are crafted to specifically favor those operating in the oil industry. I'm not complaining, I've benefitted from it as well, but if we're going to keep both sides of the debate honest...

Many specific tax write offs are created for situations tax law didn't allow for the write off but the spirit of not taxing expenses necessary for production said the write off was only fair.

Meanwhile politicians get to appear to be heroes coming to the aid of their constituents. So there seems to be little motivation to simplify tax law.

 

[Grumpycat]

I agree with your point, we are not a free market economy, the government has long held sway over the winners and losers... nothing new. But your first sentence seems to disagree with the one right behind it?

No, its S.N.A.F.U., every industry gets "special" treatment so that in effect nobody gets special treatment. Other than the little guy who is left out in the cold not able to afford to buy a pet politician.

 

[wawajake]

It's hard to find historic data on exactly how much Tesla and its buyers have received in federal and state tax credits and incentives, but the number is massive... I saw one source name it at close to $5 billion total, although I personally have my doubts it's that high. Whatever the number, arguing they receive little today, because they've already max'd out many of the program limits, is like suggesting one closes the barn doors after the horse is gone.

Tesla became the leader at least partly because they were in a good position to take advantage of those rebates, before others. Because they were very smart, and focused back in 2015 on the tech they saw as important for 2025, they were able to leverage on those rebates to be where they are today. Others buried their heads in the sand, and are now playing catch-up.

I used to have a link to how Tesla also obtained major EV car factory tax breaks / subsidies? from European and other countries that obtained factories.....I could only easily find the German link, and I am curious about the China complex relationship https://www.carscoops.com/2021/02/t...on-in-german-subsidies-for-local-gigafactory/
.

 

[Grumpycat]

I used to have a link to how Tesla also obtained major EV car factory tax breaks / subsidies? from European and other countries that obtained factories.....I could only easily find the German link, and I am curious about the China complex relationship https://www.carscoops.com/2021/02/t...on-in-german-subsidies-for-local-gigafactory/
.

Who has built an automobile factory who didn’t get such deals? Or even a pencil factory?

 

[wawajake]

Who has built an automobile factory who didn’t get such deals? Or even a pencil factory?

Not my point.....I was expanding the discussion beyond the USA centric that happens so often here. Musk has been extremely good at getting taxpayer/ government money all around the world. Probably better than most other industries over the past 100 years.....but proving what has happened in those back room deals buried by accountants galore , would require a honest news media, and we don't have that. Having it under the guise of " green better for the planet* further obscures it. AND that's not even getting into the tax money for charging stations he wisely jumped on. The only losers in all this is taxpayers around the world. As we aggressively switch from a good transportation system that would of modifed at a reasonable market speed ( and infrastructure spending) over 5 decades, instead of 1 decade being forced down our throats. Hopefully right wing parties in North America and Europe will bring some sanity to this.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

EVs have 79% more reliability problems than ICE cars, says an article in Consumer Reports.



Widely accepted wisdom has it that electric vehicles are easier to maintain than those with internal combustion powertrains. It seems intuitive—EVs have many fewer moving parts than cars that have to detonate small quantities of hydrocarbon fuel thousands of times a minute. But the data don't really bear out the idea. In fact, according to data collected by Consumer Reports, EVs are significantly less reliable than conventionally powered cars.

CR is known for buying cars for its own test fleet, but for its annual auto reliability survey, the organization cast a wider net. Specifically, it gathered data from 330,000 owners of vehicles from model year 2000 onwards, and it uses that survey data to generate reliability scores for each vehicle and model year.

The results are a little inconvenient for the EV evangelist. EVs had 79 percent more reliability problems than a gasoline- or diesel-powered vehicle, on average. Plug-in hybrids fared even worse; these had 146 percent more issues on average than the conventional alternative.

Do you think you have the ability to see beyond what you expect to see?

 

[Grumpycat]

Not my point.....I was expanding the discussion beyond the USA centric that happens so often here. Musk has been extremely good at getting taxpayer/ government money all around the world. Probably better than most other industries over the past 100 years.....but proving what has happened in those back room deals buried by accountants galore , would require a honest news media, and we don't have that. Having it under the guise of " green better for the planet* further obscures it. AND that's not even getting into the tax money for charging stations he wisely jumped on. The only losers in all this is taxpayers around the world. As we aggressively switch from a good transportation system that would of modifed at a reasonable market speed ( and infrastructure spending) over 5 decades, instead of 1 decade being forced down our throats. Hopefully right wing parties in North America and Europe will bring some sanity to this.

And my point is that Tesla isn't getting anything a pencil manufacturer wouldn't get for building similar factory. No matter the country.

 

[wawajake]

And my point is that Tesla isn't getting anything a pencil manufacturer wouldn't get for building similar factory. No matter the country.

Who still uses pencils ?