Ethanol

[AchingBack]

Are there other TBN members who believes the production of ethanol is a lose, lose proposition in the United States? I offer this food for thought from a well respected professor of economics.

If you are a farmer receiving a subsidy, have you taken land formerly producing other crops, to now produce corn?

I used to see a bumper sticker that read: If you gripe about farmers, don't complain with food in your mouth.

Today's version might read: If you gripe about the price of corn, blame ethanol.
Big Corn and Ethanol Hoax

 

[Skyco]

I didn't read the link but from what I understand the whole ethanol thing is a "feel good" package which actually is more wasteful than not doing it.
I don't like ethanol in my gasoline, it produces less mileage and can cause more problems under long term storage. I notice Stabil has now come out with a gas stabilizer for ethanol containing fuels, and it costs twice as much

 

[AchingBack]

The article isn't too long. If readers are too busy, but curious, here is a short excerpt:

Ethanol is so costly that it wouldn't make it in a free market. That's why Congress has enacted major ethanol subsidies, about $1.05 to $1.38 a gallon, which is no less than a tax on consumers. In fact, there's a double tax -- one in the form of ethanol subsidies and another in the form of handouts to corn farmers to the tune of $9.5 billion in 2005 alone.



There's something else wrong with this picture. If Congress and President Bush say we need less reliance on oil and greater use of renewable fuels, then why would Congress impose a stiff tariff, 54 cents a gallon, on ethanol from Brazil? Brazilian ethanol, by the way, is produced from sugar beet and is far more energy efficient, cleaner and cheaper to produce.



Ethanol production has driven up the prices of corn-fed livestock, such as beef, chicken and dairy products, and products made from corn, such as cereals. As a result of higher demand for corn, other grain prices, such as soybean and wheat, have risen dramatically. The fact that the U.S. is the world's largest grain producer and exporter means that the ethanol-induced higher grain prices will have a worldwide impact on food prices.

 

[wa9w00d]

Bottom feeder,
I think ethanol from grain is crazy, a very expensive boondoggle.
MAYBE cellulose ethanol has some future, but not as a main supply. Even then, I wonder if we aren't just stealing from the soil instead of the dinner plate.

 

[bigshovel]

A lose lose in every direction and a literal tax on the tax payer's. We all want cheap energy but if it's 1.05 at the pump you'll pay another income tax or use tax that is 4.00. Has anyone looked at their pay stubs lately!!!! We are paying for everything and 1 more tax is unwelcome in my camp.

Not going political or into advanced economics but if govt. programs are subsidised by are tax dollar then we just paid for it twice.

Brad

 

[milkman]

Ethanol is cheaper to produce from sugar... sugar is produced in the south
Corn is produced primarily in the midwest... Major Ethanol production in the US is a recent venture with lots of Govt. money involved, doesn't take a genius to figure out why the money is not going toward ethanol from sugar.

 

[RalphVa]

There was a good article on this in National Geographic about 3 or 4 months ago. In their article, they say that ethanol gives 1.3 units of energy for 1.0 unit input to make it. There are far more efficient bio fuels out there, according to their article, some returning a 20/1 ratio of output vs. input (switch grass is one, and our president has mentioned this one). Most of these others are requiring more time to develop. Ethanol from corn was just one that the politicians could jump on to promote. Think it has driven up the price of food and probably has had some effect on driving the cost of crude up. Both of these are driving the prices of everything up. If other sources develop, the ethanol from corn processing plants will be shut down or require considerable revamp to convert to the other bio source.

They need to make use of the entire corn plant to make alcohol. Just using the grain leaves the rest as just compost or cattle feed. They're doing research on this. Still, some of the other bio products seem more promising in the long run.

Ralph

 

[MikePA]

Making fuel from any food source is stupid.

 

[Egon]

Nothing wrong with Ethanol. Just make sure that your distillation process gives you the good stuff!

 

[Z-Michigan]

Aching Back, I have read tons on ethanol and E85 and I agree with you about 99%. It is basically a big giveaway to certain commercial interests, and it has no future as a fuel source. Only area I disagree is the relationship between ethanol production and grain prices. It is not all that straightforward, especially because so much corn is otherwise used as animal feed, not grain for human consumption. I'm sure it has an effect, but a lot of the recent run-up in grain prices is due to droughts during the southern hemisphere summer (which is just ending) causing a severe shortfall in their grain production, and a dramatic increase in demand for meat in many developing countries, especially China.

Making fuel from any food source is stupid.

All depends how much of the food source you have. Not long ago there was a huge glut of corn and most other grains. When you have a glut, I see nothing wrong with using it for fuel. But of course the grain market is uneven and cyclical and you can't depend on grain for fuel unless you want it to take priority over food.

Which all gets back to the facts that-
1) Corn ethanol is dumb, not nearly as good as sugarcane ethanol
2) Neither one of those can supply anywhere close to US fuel demand. Even cellulosic is iffy, and that's only if it can be commercialized.