Equipment Failure

[My Gym]

I have wondered with all the computer controlled equipment that is out there. Could manufacturer program into the equipment random or programmed failure? I have heard many comments that "it seemed that the equipment knew when the warranty was over". I know enough about electronics that it could be done and there would be no way to prove. It was always a suspicion until now. The following is from the manual for a $35.00 item that will fail 7 years after power up.


IMPORTANT: Seven (7) years after the initial power up, this alarm
will beep two times every 30 seconds to indicate that it is time
to replace the alarm. Replace the alarm immediately! It will not
detect CO in this condition.

 

[ericm979]

The physical sensor in CO alarms degenerates over time. That's why it needs to be replaced.

Adding a "kill timer" increases the BOM cost (cutting profit or raising the price) and there's no guarantee that the customer would buy another unit from the same manufacturer when the old one dies.

 

[chim]

Although anything is possible (look at the VW emissions scandal), but my thought would be the manufacturer wants the tractor NOT to fail to protect its reputation. Years ago I was having trouble with some controls and was told that the typical lifespan of many electronic gadgets is approx. 10 years. I've since had numerous electronics go twice that long and keep running. My concern with using more electronics is simply a failure that would render a machine useless.

We have some equipment at work that is very mechanically sound, but some control components are no longer available as new OEM parts. It doesn't matter how robust a machine might be if you can't make it run. The smallest thing can be a big problem. For en example, think about how many times you've read about tractors refusing to start because of a minor adjustment on a safety switch. What happens when the main computer goes bad and you can't even find a used one on Ebay?

 

[zzvyb6]

Most equipment using computer controls that I know of have a "limp home" mode. Electronic controls fine tune the machinery unless there are major safety issues. The electronics also knows what is wrong so that diagnostics are easier if you have the skills to make use of them.

 

[Kentuckyfarmer]

I could see a replacement warning being programmed after so many hours of operation but not a specific time. What if there was only 100 or 200 hours on the machine.

Worked in the IT field for the last 12 years of employment until I retired. Cut my teeth on building automation before I went IT full time. We wrote code for a heating and air conditioning system in a simtec building way back when. Its unbelievable what code you can inject to do things. Things you can to insure you will have an income for a long time. Is it right to do this, no.... Is it being done, you can bet your bottom dollar it is.

 

[oosik]

Not my tractor, but my new motorcycle has MANY computer controlled warnings. EX - low fuel, low engine oil, ride mode in wrong setting for detected road conditions, stability control, traction control, engine overheat, wrong suspension setting for detected load. And because I have a GPS navigation system - it will ask me - "Now that you have decided to take a wrong turn, would you like me to reprogram a new route". Fortunately - if the computer goes TU - there is an analog "limp home" mode.

 

[frugalangler]

As long as there is sufficient hardware (RAM, sensors, etc) anything can be programmed in software. Is it being done, likely not failures for reason pointed out above (mfg reputation) but there are definitely alarms for time sensitive components - many manufactures set the dash warning light after the recommended mileage for a timing belt has elapsed, or some other routine maintenance item has expired (usually mileage) as RTC (Real Time Clock) functionality is difficult at best without GPS to sync time from, think about a PC that has a button battery for it's memory and clock power when not plugged in, they go dead after time, and the RTC clock is not very accurate either, it just keeps it close until the PC gets back on network to sync time or someone manually updates the clock.

So, even though it's possible, it's highly unlikely that any reputable manufacturer would install a time bomb code, given today's code kids capabilities it wouldn't take long for that to be discovered and could potentially bankrupt a company due to the law suits that would surface. It took very deep pockets for VW to survive their little mishap.

 

[Ortimber]

As long as there is sufficient hardware (RAM, sensors, etc) anything can be programmed in software. Is it being done, likely not failures for reason pointed out above (mfg reputation) but there are definitely alarms for time sensitive components - many manufactures set the dash warning light after the recommended mileage for a timing belt has elapsed, or some other routine maintenance item has expired (usually mileage) as RTC (Real Time Clock) functionality is difficult at best without GPS to sync time from, think about a PC that has a button battery for it's memory and clock power when not plugged in, they go dead after time, and the RTC clock is not very accurate either, it just keeps it close until the PC gets back on network to sync time or someone manually updates the clock.

So, even though it's possible, it's highly unlikely that any reputable manufacturer would install a time bomb code, given today's code kids capabilities it wouldn't take long for that to be discovered and could potentially bankrupt a company due to the law suits that would surface. It took very deep pockets for VW to survive their little mishap.

I agree with this statement. Software controls almost every aspect of our life and it can be programmed for good or malicious intentions.

 

[My Gym]

I posted this to start a discussion and bring the subject to attention not as a discussion of the specific item. The company has chosen to to add a feature that forces you to remove the unit based upon something that has NOTHING to do with the operation of the unit. The manufacturer has chosen a specified period of time to cause a absolute failure. The degradation of the sensors is enviromental and the unit can fail within days under certain conditions. The company decided on 7 years. How many units has the company estimated to have failed in the 7 years? 1 out of 100, 10 out of 100, 50 out of 100. Is the decision based on reliability, safety, liability or profitability.

 

[Phillip w]

Don't know for sure about the electronics. Years ago internationa and studebaker made pick ups. The international pickup was very tuff, rugged, and dependable. The truck would go and go and go. Couldn't wear it out, couldn't break it. So international went out of business not because they built a lousy truck. International went out of business because you couldn't wear it out and the didn't need to sell you parts. To day these companies want their product to break. They make a bundle on parts and half the time you can't get after market parts. Agco has made a bundle off of me in parts, but I won't ever buy another agco product period. They shot themselves in the foot.