Engine Oil Change Frequency

[OkieG]

A couple nights ago, I was reading a thread on diesel fuel. The subject was pros/cons of using on-road/off-road diesel fuel. That evening I found the following quote in my JD 855 owners manual: IMPORTANT: USE FUEL WITH LESS THAN 1.0% SULFUR. IF POSSIBLE, USE FUEL WITH LESS THAN 0.5% SULFUR. IF FUEL SULFUR IS MORE THAN 0.5%, CHANGE ENGINE OIL AND FILTER EVERY 100 HOURS. The point here is that if you use off-road diesel (which is less expensive, BUT also has the possibility of higher sulfur content) you may want to change oil more often. The JD recommended interval for my tractor is every 200 hours.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Everthing I've read about oil changes indicates that you should change the oil before storing the engine for any length of time. I don't put enough hours on the tractor to follow the hours recommendation so I just change the oil and filter during the late Fall as the Kub just sets during the rainy part of the year. Note: Late Fall is December in South Louisian!!
Bill in La.

 

[mcconoughey]

It is a common belief that changing an oil filter more often than recommended by the maker is a good thing. Actually, it is not a good thing. The oil filter gets more efficient as it becomes used. Filter makers call this "loading." It sounds weird that a dirty filter could filter better than a new filter, but it is well established that this is true. Like most good things, this can be taken too far. A grossly over-used filter can either start to recycle contaminates or may suffer a physical failure. Who knows best? Well, maybe no one for every circumstance. But as a generality, the tractor maker has a pretty good understanding of its equipment. Changing oil filters at the factory recommended interval may not only save you money, it may contribute to longer engine life. How about that for a double gain?

 

[ekrampitzjr]

It looks as if the tractor manufacturers are lengthening their oil change intervals. In the '70s-'80s a typical interval was 50 hours, which is what my diesel Mitsubishi calls for. I change mine more frequently, about every 25-30 hours, and even then the oil is pitch black--far darker than the oil would be in a gasoline engine at change time. For a diesel engine, 75 hours, let alone 100 hours, seems to be pushing it a lot, even with today's improved oils and engines. Diesels really contaminate oil; it's the nature of the beast.

That leads me to a concern. There is evidence that the car manufacturers are recommending longer oil change intervals not because engines and oils are supposedly so much better, but because they know people simply don't change their oil as often as they should. I know people who don't change their oil but every 10,000+ miles as they get around to it, and we're talking dino oil here. However, especially with low-viscosity oils such as 5W20 that many new cars call for, the cynic in me suspects that this is also a way for the car makers to make $ selling remanufactured engines when the original engines fail long before they should because of these longer change intervals.

Mechanics have talked in magazines and on computer forums about the differences they see inside engines between those that had 3,000-mile changes and those that had the manufacturer's recommended 5,000- to 6,000-mile changes. Usually the one that had the 6K changes is filthy inside with sludge, massive amounts of varnish, and other problems, and it failed long before the one that had 3K changes. Often these engines don't even make 100,000 miles, even though the owner did have the oil changed every 6K miles as called for.

And now the tractor makers are going down the same path. The cynic in me says that this is to encourage sales of engine rebuilds and replacement engines down the road, long before it should happen. It never hurts to change the oil a little more often.

 

[neilw]

This is where analysis of your oil can come into play. If you think your drain period is to long or not long enough. Have your oil test.

John Deere test oil as does your local CAT dealer. My local CAT dealer changes $11.00 postage paid to test your oil. What you get is wear analysis ( does the amount of iron, alumimum, lead etc) indicate your oil is letting your machine eating itself away. Also you will learn if you have a coolant leak, ineffective air filtration or unburned fuel in your crank case. Same goes for your gear oil or hydraulic fluids.

Check it out on NORIA.COM or bobistheoilguy.com.
They are not tractor people but some of the automotive world translates to tractors very well.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I don't mean to dis-respect anyone's opinion, but you will never convince me that it's a good thing to have extended oil changes. I have taken apart my share of gas engines that have had an "over-frequency" of oil/filter changes (2500-3000) miles and they are almost uniformly clean as a whistle, high mileage engines that have given good service. These engines are typically ideal candidates for rebuilding, as the cylinder bores, bearing journals, etc are in excellent shape. In many cases only a mild cleanup (.010" cut) is needed. Sludge is almost non-existent. Whenever possible, especially on high performance applications, I add a larger capacity oil pan, not only to ensure adequate oil supply at higher rpms, but a larger volume of clean oil as well. Oil changes are still held to 3000 miles and larger 1 qt. filters are preferred.
On the other hand, I have seen numerous bearing failures from debris and hotspots caused by extended oil change service (6000 and more miles between changes). Sludge/varnish buildup (and the resulting slower oil drainback through plugged passages) are dramatically increased. These engines also tend to run a few degrees hotter.
I intend to change oil/filter on my tractor somewhere in the 30 - 50 hour range, depending on the type of usage it's had. The filter is $6 and the oil runs no more than $2/qt so that's $16 - cheap insurance.
The loading issue that was brought up should not be applied to the single stage filters that are commonly used for auto/tractor applications. Your best bet is a new clean filter from a quality mfg.

My same old tired refrain is do not scrimp on oil/filter brand or change interval frequency!

 

[karmakanic]

I'll just add my voice to the chorus. I've torn down many engines and the difference in condition between frequent and prolonged oil changes is substantial and real.

I also agree the car manufactors have extended their recommended intervals to the point where it is detremental to the longevity. One of the reasons they've done this is the influence of oil change intervals on the average maintenance cost sticker they have to post on new cars.

Just this week I heard about a class action suit against a very expensive German automaker that was settled by the maker extending the warranty on a group of engines to 100k miles for sludge buildup problems. This maker uses a very sophisticated oil monitor system that tells the owner when to change oil. It monitors mileage, ave. temp per trip, acid and water contamination and a bunch of other things. It is designed to give the ave motorist 10k oil change intervals.

And it is destroying engines. When they first indroduced it they said you could use conventional oil or synthetic. Then they changed it to synthetic only. And they're still having problems. We usually see the first signs in hydraulic lifters and camshafts. It cloggs the lifters and wipes the cam lobes. It also plays havoc with the plactic components inside the engine (Yes, there is lots of plastic inside engines nowdays, timing chain rails, oil supply tubes, ect)

And it's not confined to the Germans. The largest Japanese manufactor has a similar class action suit brewing over the same sludge build up issues.

I change the oil in my tractor at 50 hours. That's equalivent to 3k miles on a road vehicle. I would never go beyond 50 hours on the tractor or 5k on a diesel road vehicle.

And I do not think that synthetic allows you to stretch these intervals substantially. As someone else mentioned, contaminants in the oil are always there. I don't want those contaminants floating around, even if the oil is better at resisting breakdown from them. The rest of the engine is not immune from their effects.

Dave

 

[Scott_in_WVA]

My JD 4400 gets the oil and filter changed every 50 hours(soon be 5 changes in about 26 months) and all my cars and my truck get the oil and filter changed every 3000 miles.I will even add a can of STP oil treatment in my cars and truck on occasion.