Electronic Governor?

[anesthes]

I'm in a pickle of sorts.

I have a old skid steer. Wisconsin engine. The skid uses a top mount distributor so I had to swap out the governor and place a distributor for the old (blown wisconsin vh4d), and remove the side distributor with a block off plate.

The skid used to have a foot throttle, so the idea was to drive it like a car. Which is almost impossible to do while working the machine, plus the linkage is all gone now anyway.

I tried using a throttle cable, but If I hold the no-load idle to say 2800 then apply load, it bogs and knocks (or stalls). I can't operate the machine and bring the throttle up and down as needed.


I need some sort of governor. I there any aftermarket electronic governor or speed control? My first thought was to pick up a MSD ignition box with a rev limiter, and just set it to 2800 rpm. But I don't know how well not firing every other cylinder is going to fair on a air cooled engine.

Any ideas?

-- Joe

 

[hr3]

How about this ??? Amazon.com: MSD Ignition 8725 Elec Eng Governor: Automotive

 

[anesthes]

How about this ??? Amazon.com: MSD Ignition 8725 Elec Eng Governor: Automotive

That is kind of what I was thinking, or

High Performance Single Stage Safety Rev Limiter - eBay (item 380317158010 end time May-16-11 15:20:21 PDT)

Do you guys see any issue with something like that on an air-cooled engine?

-- Joe

 

[SPYDERLK]

How about this ??? Amazon.com: MSD Ignition 8725 Elec Eng Governor: Automotive

Not clear how it operates. Very sketchy and info sparse specs.
larry

 

[vpd66]

That is kind of what I was thinking, or

High Performance Single Stage Safety Rev Limiter - eBay (item 380317158010 end time May-16-11 15:20:21 PDT)

Do you guys see any issue with something like that on an air-cooled engine?

-- Joe

I don't believe that will work like a real governor. All it will do is keep the motor from over reving. When the engine lugs down it has no way to increase the rpms like a really governor does. Real governors operate the throttle to keep the engine at a steady rpm.

 

[anesthes]

I don't believe that will work like a real governor. All it will do is keep the motor from over reving. When the engine lugs down it has no way to increase the rpms like a really governor does. Real governors operate the throttle to keep the engine at a steady rpm.

True. What it would allow is the throttle to remain wide open, yet keep the rpms at whatever the set point is at. In theory, once a load is on the motor it should drop rpm by a hair but still get enough air and fuel to operate properly.

Do you know of any electronic governors that operate the throttle ?

Like I said, for this application with the top mount distributor I cannot use a mechanical governor. The other option is rigging a foot pedal back in, but I don't like the idea of having to operate the throttle by foot while I'm working the machine.

-- Joe

 

[anesthes]

Not clear how it operates. Very sketchy and info sparse specs.
larry

It provides a short on the coil ground every other firing event when the RPM threshold is met. It alternates so that every other cycle a different cylinder is dropped.

-- Joe

 

[SPYDERLK]

It provides a short on the coil ground every other firing event when the RPM threshold is met. It alternates so that every other cycle a different cylinder is dropped.

-- Joe

That sounds like the rev limiter product referred. A governor should alter throttle to match load and maintain rpm. The former would be very wasteful if employed as a governor unless fuel injection was also interrupted.
larry

 

[vpd66]

True. What it would allow is the throttle to remain wide open, yet keep the rpms at whatever the set point is at. In theory, once a load is on the motor it should drop rpm by a hair but still get enough air and fuel to operate properly.

Do you know of any electronic governors that operate the throttle ?

Like I said, for this application with the top mount distributor I cannot use a mechanical governor. The other option is rigging a foot pedal back in, but I don't like the idea of having to operate the throttle by foot while I'm working the machine.

-- Joe

When your engine gets under load it will fall on its face and when you set the throttle wide out the rev limiter will be constantly cutting the ignition and make the engine sound like it is missing. Believe me it is not what you want. Do a search for a "Hoof style" governor. They make all sorts from belt driven to a vacuum operated throttle palte that mounts under the carb. I 've seen a few of these on forklifts.

 

[vpd66]

When your engine gets under load it will fall on its face and when you set the throttle wide out the rev limiter will be constantly cutting the ignition and make the engine sound like it is missing. Believe me it is not what you want. Do a search for a "Hoof style" governor. They make all sorts from belt driven to a vacuum operated throttle palte that mounts under the carb. I 've seen a few of these on forklifts.

https://altfuel.com/governors.htm

This website has the style I'm talking about.

 

[brokenot]

If you want a true electronic governor, they are available. We have lots of aerial equipment equipped with them. Contact Precision Governors and they can help you out. They aren't inexpensive, but used ones occasionally show up on the auction sites. Hoof governors do work, but they're best suited for applications where the engine load isn't varying widely all the time. The Precision Governors use a control module/box that senses engine rpm and sends an output to a throttle control to maintain a set speed. Depending on the governor model, two or three speed "sets" can be programmed in. If you have the "mid speed" trimpot set for 1800 rpm for example, the module and throttle control will maintain that rpm. There are also trimpots for adjusting parameters like gain, so that a controller can be fine-tuned for different applications...since engine response to throttle inputs can vary widely from one application to another. Undershooting or overshooting can be virtually eliminated.

Speed settings, starter lockout settings, overspeed shutdown settings, etc are all dialed in with trimpots on the back of the governor box. No laptop interface required. Speed settings are input to the governor box during operation with a simple switch or relay. If the engine is idling, you flip a switch and the engine immediately comes up to the dialed-in rpm setting. Flipping another switch brings the engine speed up to the next dialed-in speed setting. One big advantage to the inputs being electrically switched is that remotely mounted engines don't need to have a convoluted throttle linkage or cable run from the operator station to the engine.

Here's a link to Precision Governors:

PG Engineered Control Solutions > Products > Controllers

The models we have the most of are the E-331 and E-301 governors. In addition to aerial equipment, they're found in gensets, floor and street sweepers, etc.

 

[anesthes]

When your engine gets under load it will fall on its face and when you set the throttle wide out the rev limiter will be constantly cutting the ignition and make the engine sound like it is missing. Believe me it is not what you want. Do a search for a "Hoof style" governor. They make all sorts from belt driven to a vacuum operated throttle palte that mounts under the carb. I 've seen a few of these on forklifts.

Thank you for the link, much appreciated. I really don't want to have to employ a foot throttle on this thing. I'd like to just set it and operate the hydraulics, like my previous farm tractor was.


The models you linked, are they for gas or propane? I found some resellers state "propane part". The S100 might be the model I'd need, if it was for a gas application.

-- Joe

 

[anesthes]

So Hoof/perice is out of business...

Any other source of a velocity governor or something fairly inexpensive?

-- Joe

 

[BHD]

Wisconsin VG4D 27hp Engine Governor Gear | eBay

Wisconsin VG4D 27hp Engine Governor Cover | eBay

governer off a Wisconsin engine VG4D

 

[anesthes]

Wisconsin VG4D 27hp Engine Governor Gear | eBay

Wisconsin VG4D 27hp Engine Governor Cover | eBay

governer off a Wisconsin engine VG4D

Thanks, however i actually have those. The problem is that is meant to mount on top, and use a side mount distributor which my configuration uses a top mount distributor.

I gave up and just replaced all the throttle linkage to the foot throttle, so now it operates like it did when it was new. Which is jerky, and a little hard getting used to.

I'm going to run it for the summer, or until I blow up the engine and replace it with a new kohler or suburu that is governed so I can just set the throttle and operate the hydraulics.

The other issue I'm having is the stupid thing won't keep the battery charged, so I need to go over the repair manual and figure out what is wrong with the charging circuit. I get about 30 minutes of runtime before the battery voltage drops so low that it won't re-crank if I stall it.

Thanks!

-- Joe

 

[vpd66]

So Hoof/perice is out of business...

Any other source of a velocity governor or something fairly inexpensive?

-- Joe

Hoof might be out of business, but if you search around (ebay and etc.) you will find plenty of NOS and used items for sale.

 

[enew]

Find somebody that rebuilds the wisconsin engines.The skid loader I have,gehl 4300, came with a top mount dist and a governor. Your charging problem could be a regultor or the engine is not equipped with a alternator. Some wisconsin v4 had a external alt driven by a belt and hung off the side of the engine.

 

[anesthes]

Find somebody that rebuilds the wisconsin engines.The skid loader I have,gehl 4300, came with a top mount dist and a governor. Your charging problem could be a regultor or the engine is not equipped with a alternator. Some wisconsin v4 had a external alt driven by a belt and hung off the side of the engine.

I've heard that existed, but I believe the carb was spun around the other way. If you are looking at the fan, my linkage to the carb is on the right side and the air intake to the rear. Erickson/Ford had a pretty wacky arrangement with the wisconsin in this skid steers. I know bobcat ran them sideways and ran belts. On mine the shaft goes into a coupler directly into the pump, so I couldn't run a belt driven alternator either.

Would you mind taking a picture of your engine/governor assembly? I think there is also a stud on the exhaust manifold of yours for the linkage that mine does not have.

-- Joe

 

[ch47dpilot]

Old Cushmans had governors for their PTO shafts. Here is one on e-bay: cushman truckster liquid cool 327 dihatsu governor used | eBay. I think the price is way out of line, I'd think about $100 at most. I bought a complete vehicle for $900. It's belt drive so I'd think it could be modified to work on just about anything. The spring on the left hooked to a cable to adjust speed and the bar on the right hooks to carburetor. This is on a 3 cylinder, the 2 cylinders were drove of the distributor, not sure if they could be modded.

 

[bamboozled]

I know this is an old thread but what did you end up doing? I just bought one of these Ford skid steers myself and had to redo the carb linkage and build a spacer for the carb to fit and function. The guy I bought it from said its technically not the correct carb but I got it to work ok for now. I would prefer a governor but mine also has the distributor on top.