Downsizing and Relearning

[knute_m]

My wife and I now qualify as being part of the "much older generation". We seriously downsized over the last several years. For about two years I regularly loaded my cargo trailer or my backhoe trailer with my toys to be sold by our local auction house.

I've been trying to learn how to exist without some of my toys. I've replaced some with cheap pieces from places like Harbor Freight.

I got rid of my old Lincoln Tombstone and my Oxy/Acetylene setup before we moved into town. I bought a nice little 120 Volt Lincoln 140 wire welder which I love, and which does a pretty good job. For cuts and holes, I get by with a saws-all, angle grinder, drill press, etc.

But, I've gotten to where I really miss being able to braze. I don't want to get another O/A setup and tanks.

For aluminum I can use my little Lincoln wire welder, but I've found that the Hobart and Lincoln aluminum "welding" rods do a pretty good job for most things I'm doing, using just a Bernzomatic TS-8000 torch. It is also very portable. I need something like this for ferrous brazing.

Maybe I've totally lost it, but I was sure that until a few years ago I could buy brazing rods for joining ferrous and non-ferrous metals where the rods melted/flowed at 1200-1400 F degrees. I used them with an acetylene torch -- no oxygen.

I've scoured the LWSs and big box stores for rods that will braze at around 1200-1300 F degrees. The LWS guys make fun of me when I ask this question. The big box stores have just about liquidated all of their welding supplies and equipment.

Do brazing rods for ferrous and non-ferrous metals exist that will work at around 1200-1300 F degrees? If so, where can I find them?

Thanks,
Knute

 

[user.69169]

You go back 50 years one of de components of defining Brazing was temperature range. Second part of definition was fancy way of saying surface connection only like glued together, no penetration into parent metal.

You can get into brass pretty far wid propane fuel & Oxygen.

Back before custom coach (hearse & ambulance) went fiberglass top real tin mechanics shaped and brazed together. Dey had some tricks, like taking advantage of remelt temp wid brass before MIG came along mostly forgot by people today.

Counter guys in welding supply probably got College Degree and scared of flame anyplace other den der doobie.. Ain't on screen or in plastic tube dey got no clue.

 

[Roadworthy]

I don't know much about the subject but when I want a bit of extra heat for my propane torch I get a cylinder of MAPP gas at the big box store. It WILL braze. Cleaning the surfaces and decent flux is critical to adhesion.

 

[user.69169]

Back second incarnation of Mapp in 1# cans come out from Turbotorch kit came wid some preflux brass rod. Low melt temperature and too much flux.
Flux get you in trouble fast wid brass. Hardens into layer of glass when cold and brutal to get rid of especially you want to build brass on top of brass. Trick to brass is clean and minimal flux. Filler been sitting around it oxided, and you save headache by running thru steel wool, fine not pot scrubber or Skotchbrite. What you sticking brass to wants to be clean too.

Much important to brazing is fitup. Brass not for bridging gaps and looses strength quality when you build to bridge. Look at specs for de rod you see brass likes no more den .005 inch to make proper connection. Brass real good when put proper where it belongs, but been loosing to epoxy for 20 years due to cost of putting brass to work.
Clean means CLEAN, not changing viscosity of oil wid thinner like Acetone or Alcohol. All dey do is make oil better penetrate casting unless you lucky. Brake cleaner bad idea too, cooks off Phosgene gas just like used to kill in trenches in World War 1.

 

[Tinhack]

Back before custom coach (hearse & ambulance) went fiberglass top real tin mechanics shaped and brazed together. Dey had some tricks, like taking advantage of remelt temp wid brass before MIG came along mostly forgot by people today.

I was in the "tin" business way back. I didn't know anyone that used brazing except in a very few spots to hold pieces in place. Brazing was still too hot for most sheet metal areas. After panels were in place, fixing and joining was done with lead, acid-wax and some wood paddles. It sure took some talent on vertical areas but my uncle could plaster it like putty. Mine came out like warts on a frog. But it was easy to file and sand. :laughing:

 

[user.69169]

I was in the "tin" business way back. I didn't know anyone that used brazing except in a very few spots to hold pieces in place. Brazing was still too hot for most sheet metal areas. After panels were in place, fixing and joining was done with lead, acid-wax and some wood paddles. It sure took some talent on vertical areas but my uncle could plaster it like putty. Mine came out like warts on a frog. But it was easy to file and sand. :laughing:

Superior Coach put ambulance top together wid brass, not too hot if man was good.

Knew fellow back in 60s who specialized in soldering window screen over hole & dne using lead to finish. Did de paddle & wheel weight thing and also had torch set up wid air hose to spray lead like was paint onto bodies. He so good he rebuilt Corvair van into camper, made it 6" wider and 18" longer. Did all his work in driveway next to his house. Kept his paddles and wirebrush in bread pan sitting next to him had a hunk of wool carpet in bottom saturated wid NoCorode solder paste.
Absolute joy to watch dat man. He even let me try after I watched. I was a little scared I screw it up. Told me he didn't think I could screw up so bad he couldn't fix. He was right and very patient. I learned I not much good at lead on car.

 

[Tinhack]

Lead was still used well into the 80s and perhaps 90s on the joint between the fly panel and roof on most all cars. Now days, there's probably some robot squirting glue there.

I was trying to remember what we used for degreaser back then. That was before brake cleaner in a can. This stuff came out of a dark tented glass gallon jug. It was outlawed for general use about the same time as R12 and the rest of the "Earth killers", if I recall. I forgot what we had to switch to but it was outlawed later too. About all you can probably use now is Windex. :laughing:

 

[user.69169]

Windex outlawed unless you run Greek restaurant. I see da movie.

All yo get now dat legal is maidenpee from government employed maiden.

Der was a Freon built for cleaning stayed liquid at 70f, lot used in electronics, but today you pull barrel dat out HazMat guys from Fire Dept show up.

Degreasing still easy if you understand saponification. Even easier if you know polysorbate 20 same as used to suspend air bubbles in ice cream and thousand other things. Don't much get used cause don't come in spray can from Horrible Fright or Homer Desperate.

 

[jaxs]

Ira-11,ira-10 and cobbn tet cloride ?

 

[user.69169]

Don't know de Ira 11 or 10. Carbon Tet pure nasty supposedly eat de liver right out of a man. Back in 50s brass Carbon Tet extinguishers all over, especially on trucks. You suppose to stand by fire and pump like a tire pump to squirt fire out. Looked at little brass can and size of truck and decide (removed) run like #e!! away from fire, not stand squirting maybe quart. Same juice branded Pyrene. Army trucks all had dem painted OD.

Freon I was thinkin of - 1,1,2-Trichloro-1,2,2-trifluoroethane, also called trichlorotrifluoroethane or CFC-113, is a chlorofluorocarbon. It has the formula Cl2FC-CClF2. This colorless, volatile liquid is a versatile solvent

Vapor degrease was big brainstorm in 60s, pretty much heated dry cleaning juice to vapor point wid greasy object hanging in tank above juice. Grease would just drip off like rain and leave clean undamaged surface. Knew shop where man took dumpster and ran pair of 6" pipes thru wid oilburner gun sticking in end of pipe. Worked real good on grease but you not want to be downwind. Got cleaning juice free from drycleaner plant in 55 gal drums.

(removed) might be dumb but he ain't dumb enough to vapor degrease lungs.

Swiped dumpster burner idea tho. 20 yard pen top roloff can melt lot of snow real fast