Doolittle Raiders

[houstonscott]

Interesting facts HS but you are looking at it in an America-centric way, WW2 involved more than America Germany and Japan, it was indeed a world war. Now look at it from a british perspective, or russian, chinese, canadian, australian or dozens of other countries and run some numbers again.

I'm responding to other peoples claim that Americas WWII generation was Americas greatest. I think not! This notion that everyone rushed down after Pearl to join is just not true. Much of those accomplishments have been greatly exceeded by today's military. If you know any multi-tour trigger pullers they will tell you there is an effort and has been a continued effort to down play battle field accomplishments in both Iraq and Afghanistan so as not to diminish WWII battles. In a nut there has been dozens of Audie Murphy's with out recognition at all!, over the last ten years, in an effort to keep WWII history at top so to say. Big Army doesn't want WWII military history rewritten. HS

 

[QRTRHRS]

I never intended this post to be *ing match. We can armchair who did what to death. Different times, different technologies, different everything. Anyone who has ever been in the military knows that life is not always fair. Or, should we state that more often as not, life is not always fair?

As a vietnam era (not vietnam vet) US Army vet, just this past VA day, I attended my very first function. In all of that time I stayed low key because of the way vets of that era were intially treated. In my mind, vets need to be treated fairly. True, some need more help than others. Some have done more than others. I would expect though that those who have done the impossible and survived another day would just as soon shed the limelight and want the focus to be on those that were not so lucky.

 

[houstonscott]

While the Doolittle Raid was gutsy, it was not militarily significant. Today such a raid would be deemed wasteful and stupid. Putting good men a risk for no military gain. Funny how things change. HS

 

[Daver1963]

No military gain!?!? I guess if you count the fact that the Japanese recalled fighter units to defend the home islands, fighter planes that could have been used in defense of their outer territories, then there was no military gain. I will link an Air Force Times story for this quote "the attack on their homeland caused Japan to pull its fleet from the Indian Ocean to defend their home islands. The raid contributed to Adm. Isoroku Yamamoto's decision to attack the Midway Islands in the Central Pacific, which turned into a decisive victory for the Navy."
If that isn't military gain, I'll kiss your grits!

What airmen should know about the Doolittle Raiders | Air Force Times | airforcetimes.com

 

[bindian]

These 3 landed at our local airport yesterday afternoon. They will be here 2 more days. Being a bit of a WW2 buff, I had to go see them. We were allowed to crawl through the 2 B's. Pretty cool and that P-51 is just pure ***. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...61d1383642327t-doolittle-raiders-dsc01376.jpg

That is a B model P-51. Also called a Razorback. The British mounted rear view mirrors above the windshield taken from Spitfires. The later bubble canopy Mustangs started with the D model and ended with the H model
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

Some military facts;

In WWII 85% were drafted, forced if you will, to serve, only 15% volunteered.
In Vietnam it was reversed, with 85% volunteering and only 15% were drafted.
Today all 100% are volunteered.

In WWII the overall average for time in combat was 14 days. Remember also the ground campaign in Europe was 10 months. D-day to VE day.

Pilots in WWII only flew 25 missions then rotated home. My son, an Apache pilot flew 6-8hrs everyday 6 days a week with one day to switch from nights to days or back, for 15 months straight, then home for a few months and back to do it again for 12 months second tour.

In Vietnam if you went at all, you were only required to do one year, all other second tours were voluntary.

In Iraq, you served 15 months continuous in combat. Most but not all got one 15 days leave during that 15 months. Some served as many as seven 15 or 12 month tours.

Many Navy vessels operate one whole year at sea without pulling in anywhere, today. Those people normal work day is 6hrs on 6hrs off, for that whole year, no breaks.

I know who the greatest military generation is, and its today's.

HS

Then my Dad and his hunting buddies were in that 15%. They were out bird hunting the afternoon of December 7,1941. The next day they enlisted. Dad wanted a P-51. but they put the better at piloting in the bombers. He was a B-17 and B-24 pilot in WWII. He liked the Boeing best. That plane is what got me into aviation.

To me.............they WERE the greatest generation. Everybody, even those back home sacrificed. It affected the whole world.
hugs, Brandi

 

[2LaneCruzer]

I never intended this post to be *ing match. We can armchair who did what to death. Different times, different technologies, different everything. Anyone who has ever been in the military knows that life is not always fair. Or, should we state that more often as not, life is not always fair?

As a vietnam era (not vietnam vet) US Army vet, just this past VA day, I attended my very first function. In all of that time I stayed low key because of the way vets of that era were intially treated. In my mind, vets need to be treated fairly. True, some need more help than others. Some have done more than others. I would expect though that those who have done the impossible and survived another day would just as soon shed the limelight and want the focus to be on those that were not so lucky.

I think the response has been somewhat greater than the stimulus. No one is denigrating the contributions of our service men and women in any conflict; I for one am eternally grateful to those who have served. The title "Greatest Generation" doesn't come with a Nobel Peace Prize and a million dollars; it's a title bestowed on a generation of Americans by Tom Brokaw and is the title of his book. It was not bestowed by a committee or a national election, nor are there national standards secreted away in some damp vault in the basement of some government building in Washington D.C. It is a literary device that intuitively seems to have its basis in fact.

IMHO the title conveys an image to describe a generation of Americans that were, for the most part born in and of the great depression. It represents not just the armed forces and the conflict involved, but society itself and the struggles and accomplishments that made them great. It is, after all, just a device; a title that has no more legal significance that the foam finger that pops up at football games.

 

[houstonscott]

I think the response has been somewhat greater than the stimulus. No one is denigrating the contributions of our service men and women in any conflict; I for one am eternally grateful to those who have served. The title "Greatest Generation" doesn't come with a Nobel Peace Prize and a million dollars; it's a title bestowed on a generation of Americans by Tom Brokaw and is the title of his book. It was not bestowed by a committee or a national election, nor are there national standards secreted away in some damp vault in the basement of some government building in Washington D.C. It is a literary device that intuitively seems to have its basis in fact. IMHO the title conveys an image to describe a generation of Americans that were, for the most part born in and of the great depression. It represents not just the armed forces and the conflict involved, but society itself and the struggles and accomplishments that made them great. It is, after all, just a device; a title that has no more legal significance that the foam finger that pops up at football games.

great, I wish people people would drop it, and quit repeating it, it simply isn't true. HS

 

[2LaneCruzer]

great, I wish people people would drop it, and quit repeating it, it simply isn't true. HS

Naw. This is an issue of national importance. I propose that we start a petition to get Congress to pass a joint resolution officially recognizing the "Greatest Generation" and making it a felony to ever question it again.

 

[flusher]

It is pretty amazing they got airborne and on their way. Heavy seas, first time bombers like this tried to take off on aircraft carrier, on original narrow straight deck carrier.

Those guys were amazing.

USS Hornet (CV-8) Revealed As Doolittle Raid Carrier (1945) - YouTube
Doolittle Raid Launch Footage (1942) - YouTube

Each time I drive I5 through Willows, CA I think about this event. Doolittle's crews brought their planes to the West Coast before the Hornet was ready to sail. To keep up their proficiency, the crews practiced the short takeoff at the little airfield at Willows. The owner of that field was one of Doolittle's buddies from the barnstorming days. You can see photos on the wall at Nancy's Café located on the airfield showing these activities. The field is now used mostly for ag planes that service the nearby rice fields.

 

[turnkey4099]

Have you read the book? I have, and will state up front that it is misleading. The author used the book as a liberal vehicle to castigate America for the perceived inequities experienced by women and minorities during the war and in our armed services. While they may have been real to an extent, they pale in comparison to the inequities (read "crimes against humanity") others were suffering and against which we were fighting.

The term "Greatest Generation" is not just about how long and how hard they fought...it's about 50 million people who died worldwide as a direct result of the war. It's about evil and inhumanity on a scale that is almost inconceivable, perpetrated by modern governments that perverted science and history for their own evil purposes...but even more important, it's about how a whole generation in this country joined together with a resolve...an effort and determination that was apparent and pervasive in the cities, towns, governments, schools, movie theaters and kitchens of every home and institution in America. It was about sacrifice and hard work on an unimaginable scale...even children contributed through scrap and paper drives; buying war stamps at school, doing without new clothing, shoes, butter, sugar, etc. It was about housewives saving tin cans and cooking oil for the war effort and recycling their aluminum cookware; it was about doing without tires and gasoline and beef that we might win as a unified and determined nation.

It was about young men and women volunteering by the millions to join up for the effort; many to be deployed and never return again. It was about giving that extra effort on a national scale that has not been seen before or since. It was about working together with a unity and determination that was palpable; victory was on their minds constantly and relentlessly and they believed in their cause with an abiding faith in God and the unequivocal knowledge that we would prevail. That's what it was about.

Very good post!

 

[turnkey4099]

While the Doolittle Raid was gutsy, it was not militarily significant. Today such a raid would be deemed wasteful and stupid. Putting good men a risk for no military gain. Funny how things change. HS

It was more a "morale" goal than a military one.

Someone mentioned that the U.S. was never invaded. Wrong: Japanese in the Aleutians and Wake Island. I think there were some other U.S. possessions in the Pacific also. True those were 'possessions' not states.

Harry K

 

[farmgirl19]

usmcsnco; Wonderful post! Thank you!

 

[houstonscott]

You sound like the guy trying to protect your history. That generations biggest failure was when they came home. Raised a generations of drug addicts and anti American idiots. A very few payed a high price, I salute them, most take credit for those few, and did nothing. HS

 

[usmcsnco]

Turnkey I appreciate the support!

 

[usmcsnco]

Excellent post! I wanted to answer him but I don't have your command of language. Something not mentioned is a lotl those who came back transferred to the National Guard, got called up for Korea ?4? years later.

Harry K

Harry:

It was my pleasure. I just had to do it, Houstonscott really launched my bottle rockets. His arguments were insolent and incendiary and without merit and to be quite frank, I had enough.

Thanks again for the support,

Dave

 

[usmcsnco]

usmcsnco; Wonderful post! Thank you!

Thanks Farmgirl, as I responded to Turnkey, HS has no clue as to what in the **** he is speaking of. I really quite honestly don't know where he got his understanding of history and the American experience.
Hopefully if it was from some obscure revisionists history written in some scholarly college textbook and not his parents.
Thanks again,

Dave