"Don't pulverize the soil...."

JDgreen227 · Jun 9, 2012

Despite all the compost, leaves, sand, etc. I have worked into my garden plot, there are still many places where the soil continues to clump up when I till it. No matter how many times I run the tiller over the soil, even when it's bone dry, the clods as shown in the picture simply will not break down. I have read online that if you have a garden you should not pulverize the soil, but to me having the soil pulverized would be ideal for growing because I wouldn't have to waste so much time raking and trying to level out the seedbed.

Is there any real reason NOT to have well pulverized soil? Thanks for your input.

bilrus61 · Jun 9, 2012

What tiller are you using? Is it a walk behind or a tractor 3 points? Go slower, lower the rear gate/drag door. Till when its dry on the top crust but still moist a inch down. Maybe grow a cover crop like Buckwheat or what we grow, sunflowers. Till them in when they are about 2 or 3 feet tall.

boggen · Jun 9, 2012

not a green thumb. but soil looks good to me? why all the fuss to have like a powered dirt? so it takes a day or 2 longer for seeds to grow up out of the soil. the plants will still grow good. and water will still penetrate the soil and slowly trickle down through the soil.

uglyboywith11fingers · Jun 9, 2012

When we had a garden plot, I'd get clumps like that if I got over-anxious and tilled in the spring when the soil was still too moist. The clumps were hard to get broken up after that.

Pete

oldballs · Jun 11, 2012

All I can say is....roto-tilling at the wrong time is a disaster....at least with my walk behind....never had a tractor tiller. As others mentioned above, getting an eye for when it is dry enough and wet enough is the answer. Although my main garden has been amended for forty years, it can still be screwed up by tilling at the wrong time. But I still consider myself an amateur. I clean up surface debris (burn it or haul it off to a burn pile) in the fall....till once; then till once in the spring.

But now with the Kubota, I've got a single moldboard plow and a midddle buster to help turn stuff over that I'm experimenting with. After that treatment tilling still is in order....at the right time. Yet I still use a rake and hoe quite a bit. The main garden is only 50 x 100 and fenced.

Maybe BP (member) and others can add more to this, since it is so important.
I think Mz Stout would advise to garden without tilling.

Western · Jun 12, 2012

JD, I have never heard "not to over pulverize dirt" before. I don't see how that could possibly effect anything negatively, sure wont "kill" the amendments or nutrients I wouldn't think. I have had higher clay content dirt that would "ball up " like your photo, no matter when you tilled it, but I agree that the timing (wet/dry) makes it less or worse.

Have you ever got it to a fine mix? has it got better since you started adding compost? lumps getting smaller over time?

flusher · Jun 12, 2012

Pulverizing by repeated rototiller will eventually destroy the soil microstructure and make it drain poorly. That said, my 87-year old neighbor has been putting in veg gardens successfully for most of his life. He discs the garden in March with an offset disc, spreads worm casings, and then rototills these into the soil thoroughly. He uses driplines under black plastic to keep the weeds down and reduce evaporative moisture loss.

Good luck.

downslope · Jun 12, 2012

The reason not to pulverise the soil is because it breaks down soil aggregates into smaller particles and encourages clumping, poor drainage and crusting of the soil surface, etc. Excessive rototilling can be notorious for this as well as tilling when wet.
DO NOT TILL WET SOIL. Slightly moist below the surface yes, wet, no.

For transplants you do not require a really fine seed bed. For direct sowing of small seeds only the surface has to be relatively smooth. Something like a meeker harrow with offset rows of small disks and a smoothing board can do this. On larger vegetable farms they might use a power harrow before seeding.

HRB 303 - Rigid Power Harrows - KUHN North America.com

Dr_Zinj · Jun 12, 2012

Since all I have is a shovel and the tiller, I used the shovel the first time I prepped the bed, and have been using the tiller ever since.

I till the scraps and compost in in the fall, and then dump the leaves in a layer across the garden to keep the dust and erosion down. I scatter fireplace ashes over those throughout the winter.

Spring comes and I till all the broken down leaves and ash into the soil. Usually takes two passes to get the organics thoroughly mixed enough to plant seed.

Both spring and fall tilling is needed to combat the intrusion of blackberry briars.

Never had any soil break down from over tilling. Have gone from powdered clay to a good humus rich soil in a couple of years. And I can attest that you do NOT want to till when it's wet unless you're planning on raising adobe bricks.

Bird · Jun 12, 2012

I don't know now much tilling is "excessive" tilling, but tilling was so easy with the tractor that I tilled my garden after every rain as soon as it was dry enough. I also tilled it in the Winter if weeds or grass started showing up. And the finer I could pulverize it, the better. I also had one of the best gardens in the area.

randy41 · Jun 12, 2012

i would till it again but with the tiller set to minimal depth just to chop up the clumps on the surface. it looks like good soil to plant in.

JDgreen227 · Jun 13, 2012

Thanks all for your input. Just about all soil in mid-Michigan is pretty much heavy clay which is why I have tried to improve the soil by adding compost and sand, etc. It has been very hot and dry the past 10 days but no matter how much I till the clumps will not break down, I borrow a neighbors rear tine tiller and tried that...still end up with clumps.

What I find so irritating about the clumps is that because where I live there is farmland on two sides of us and the wind comes from those two sides, and because of all the quackgrass and other weeds, any bare soil here is immediately covered with seeds that quickly sprout. Because of the seeds, I have to put down that black fabric landscape ground cover or I can never keep up with the weeds. Trying to pull the weeds from the clumps means they break off in the soil. And the clumps make it almost impossible to level the soil so I can put down the fabric.

As to the original question about "don't pulverize the soil" when I did a Google search about how I could better break up the clumps, many of the hits from Google said "DON'T PULVERIZE" and I could not find out why that was the case. I use a walk behind Rally front tine tiller. No matter how I set it to till shallow or deep, it just moves the clumps around without breaking them down further.

Yellowhair42 · Jun 13, 2012

heavy clay which is why I have tried to improve the soil by adding compost and sand, etc.

Quit adding sand.Sand+clay=concrete.Only organic material will help.

JDgreen227 · Jun 13, 2012

I mentioned in a post above I have a real problem with weeds sprouting in any bare soil, I tilled this up less than two weeks ago and look at the new growth. At least THIS area doesn't have clumps.

oldmech · Jun 13, 2012

JDgreen227 said:
I mentioned in a post above I have a real problem with weeds sprouting in any bare soil, I tilled this up less than two weeks ago and look at the new growth. At least THIS area doesn't have clumps.

Hi! Soil is life. Plant need air water and food for grownt . For me less is sometime better. For your soil. Look for correct the PH. If you can add some lime this can improve quality of soil. More easy to work after. Good luck Oldmech

downslope · Jun 13, 2012

JDgreen227 said:
I mentioned in a post above I have a real problem with weeds sprouting in any bare soil, I tilled this up less than two weeks ago and look at the new growth. At least THIS area doesn't have clumps.

I am not a weed expert, but some of those weeds (viney things) look like perennials. Are you sure they're not regrowing from underground roots or rhizomes and not seeds. If they are perennials growing from roots they will be difficult to eradicate, especially with the clumps. If you are not organic you could try an application or two of Roundup (glyphosate) and then go back to organic growing.
Then keep adding compost and tilling in. Keep in mind, howver, that improperly composted material can also contain viable seeds, rhizomes, etc, and cause continual problems. Maybe you could try a heavy roller before laying the ground cloth. Ground cloth and/or black poly may be your best solution, at least for awhile.

schoolsout · Jun 13, 2012

I think the pulverizing soil part has to do with disrupting the natural ecosystem found in soil. Mychorrizal (sp?) fungis, worms and whatever else that lives in the soil that benefit plants can be disrupted.

JDgreen227 · Jun 13, 2012

schoolsout said:
I think the pulverizing soil part has to do with disrupting the natural ecosystem found in soil. Mychorrizal (sp?) fungis, worms and whatever else that lives in the soil that benefit plants can be disrupted.

You make a REALLY good point there and that (about pulverizing) was the actual basis of my original query....THANKS.

And Downslope asks if the growth in the picture is from roots or rhizomes....no, because I carefully removed any and all roots that were in that area. Good query, however. When the plot was new, I went to a LOT of work to kill all the vegetation before tilling, and for several years afterwards I kept hoeing to dig down deep and be sure ALL the quackgrass roots and rhizomes were removed. It was quite a headache.