Dog training (shock) collar

[TomSeller]

I lost our first dog - young black lab - to a very sneaky pack of coyotes. They sent a young female, who was probably in heat, into my yard. He followed her down the hill and into the valley where three or four more were waiting. I sure hope they enjoyed black lab for breakfast.

Okay, okay, we get it

For some reason your post must not have seemed to go through? 3 slightly different posts.

 

[Sigarms]

I lost our first dog - young black lab - to a very sneaky pack of coyotes. They sent a young female, who was probably in heat, into my yard. He followed her down the hill and into the valley where three or four more were waiting. I sure hope they enjoyed black lab for breakfast.

We've got smarter yotes around here, the females yotes dress up in lingerie.

Can anyone provide any studies other than a urban myth?

 

[oosik]

OOPS - sorry, my bad. Have a satellite IP, some times things get a twitch screwed up when the wx is stormy.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Shock collars are great for aversion conditioning. If you want to snake-proof a dog or train them to stay off the road, they are just the thing. That said, they are worthless for training. Shock a dog that doesn't understand why it is being shocked and you will ruin the dog.

 

[plowhog]

I have never used a shock collar and never will. I also have never lost a dog to an accident or predator and I have had dogs all my life. Fences, voice control (and boatloads of training/work to get the voice control) are all I have ever needed.

My thoughts exactly-- right up until now. I just bought a shock collar but have not used it yet. I never worried about our female Goldens at the ranch property. They liked to stay near us, and they were not "hunters." Our latest, a 2 yr old male Golden, is a big concern. We have coyotes, bobcats, and bears. If know if he is off leash and sees a coyote *** bam *** he will be gone-- off to chase or "play" with it. He has a very strong hunting/chasing instinct. It's weird to have a big beautiful property where a dog can run but confine him to a leash. Never done that before. Never needed to do it before. But until I get a shock collar working with results, he stays on the leash. Just a big difference from our other dogs.

 

[teejk]

Shock collars are great for aversion conditioning. If you want to snake-proof a dog or train them to stay off the road, they are just the thing. That said, they are worthless for training. Shock a dog that doesn't understand why it is being shocked and you will ruin the dog.

I don't agree. Our dog knew when he was not obeying commands so he exactly why he got the zap. As noted above, it literally took 2 days for him to "get his mind right" and after that 99% of the "reminders" were of the harmless audio variety. We had a neighbor that had a problem with a big yellow lab and he mentioned to my wife that they were thinking of getting rid of him. She suggested the shock collar. That dog is still there and the neighbor is eternally grateful.

 

[N80]

Our last Lab did not need a shock collar. Super smart and always wanted to please. Our current one, now about 15 months old, is also smart, but a little more hard headed about barking and bolting when he sees something he likes. We got a cheapo shock collar. We have used it about 4 times. He got the picture quick and no more problems.

I did not like using it but it worked like a charm and I made sure he knew who was shocking him and why. He yelped the first time. Not the second time. After that we just used the tone, just a few times.

Our neighbor two doors down has a Lab he can't control. Very sweet dog but bolts when she sees a squirrel or another dog. I offered him our shock collar. He said he does not 'believe' in that sort of training. He'll believe his dog is dead when it gets hit by a car though. Several close calls already. I just don't understand some people.

 

[Sigarms]

It's weird to have a big beautiful property where a dog can run but confine him to a leash. Never done that before. Never needed to do it before. But until I get a shock collar working with results, he stays on the leash. Just a big difference from our other dogs.

Currently we have 40 acres and are down to 4 dogs. 3 dogs wear "shock collars".

In the past, we've had other dogs who have used shock collars (up to 6 at one time). Some of those pets have since past away.

The only "training" we do with the collars is to keep the dog on our property.

Very rarely do we ever have to use the shock mode once a dog has been "zapped". The key is to hit vibrate first, and if they don't come, then shock. Dogs not being stupid, get the idea pretty quick.

Our dogs are usually always within eyesight of us when we're out walking them, however, with a couple of "hunting dogs" in particular, sometimes they do get a bug up their butt and they are off. The vibrate mode generally gets them back.

We brought one small Heinz 57 mix into the fold and EVERY dang time we opened that door, OFF he went running to the neighbors. Pain in the butt everytime to get him back because he didn't want to come with you called him and you had to walk around the barbed wire fence (where he ran under it). 2 days with the collar on and has been perfectly normal around the house, although we tend to find him sneaking off back to the neighbors from time to time (couple of our neighbors leave trash and food outside, and it gets the dogs attention pretty quick).

Personally fond of the Dogtra brand myself. Did have to replace batteries one time, other than that, been very reliable. I have however found that if the dog is on the other side of a hill. the collar may not recieve the signal from the transmitter.

 

[95XL883]

T On occasion we'll throw a rock or stick near him to break his scent "trance" he gets into and respond to us.

When we got our Sammie, the trainer gave us three bean bags for similar use. He said most dogs don't have to be hit with the bag, just the sound of it hitting the ground and especially near them gets their attention. He also gave us a whistle. We're supposed to use the whistle first and then add the bag if she doesn't respond. In our house or yard we use the bag instead of the collar. We seem to forget the whistle so we have "replaced" it with "Hey". If the "Hey" doesn't stop what she is doing, the bean bag is coming. We use the "Hey" when she has the collar on as well. As DRSSG says, we like our Sammie responding to our voice (and hand signals when she is looking at us.) We use almost all positive reinforcement. (I still feed bad about the couple of times I accidentally shocked her.) HTH.

 

[N80]

One two occasions I have thrown my shoe (rubber Croc) at our new Lab when he was not obeying. The first time it missed him. The second time it bounced once and then grazed him. In other words, the shoe never hurt him. Now, if I even act like I'm reaching for my shoe in anger he behaves immediately. If I had seen this behavior first I probably could have skipped the shock collar.

 

[teejk]

One two occasions I have thrown my shoe (rubber Croc) at our new Lab when he was not obeying. The first time it missed him. The second time it bounced once and then grazed him. In other words, the shoe never hurt him. Now, if I even act like I'm reaching for my shoe in anger he behaves immediately. If I had seen this behavior first I probably could have skipped the shock collar.

Look...I'm not saying that a shocker should be used as the initial trainer. In my case dogs have gone through basic training for the basic commands (come, sit, stay, heel and one even mastered the "roll-over") and they obey them well as long as they are on a leash or lead. Take them off the leash/lead and the story changes. The shock collar IMHO is nothing other than an invisible leash/lead.

 

[N80]

Look...I'm not saying that a shocker should be used as the initial trainer. In my case dogs have gone through basic training for the basic commands (come, sit, stay, heel and one even mastered the "roll-over") and they obey them well as long as they are on a leash or lead. Take them off the leash/lead and the story changes. The shock collar IMHO is nothing other than an invisible leash/lead.

Agreed. That's why we got the shook collar. And it was very effective. We just needed some way to 'project power'. The shock collar did the job but the shoe might have worked just as well. Hind sight is 20/20 but given the circumstances I'm still glad we got the collar. He is a big, happy, healthy energetic dog that loves people and thinks that at least one of them has lightning bolts in his hand. :laughing:

 

[95XL883]

The shock collar IMHO is nothing other than an invisible leash/lead.

I agree it is that but because it can inflict pain it is more than just a leash/lead. On the positive side, its range is much greater than a physical lead or how far one can throw a bean bag, shoe, etc. Still, I just use the vibrate mode.

 

[teejk]

Agreed. That's why we got the shook collar. And it was very effective. We just needed some way to 'project power'. The shock collar did the job but the shoe might have worked just as well. Hind sight is 20/20 but given the circumstances I'm still glad we got the collar. He is a big, happy, healthy energetic dog that loves people and thinks that at least one of them has lightning bolts in his hand. :laughing:

As I mentioned previously, it didn't take long with the "lightning bolt" before our dog figured it out. They are dogs and as such they would love to be at the top of the power chain (that's what dogs do). The collar served to let him know that he was not at the top (but still pretty high).

 

[Rustyiron]

This is a good discussion, thanks. Now I need my wife to read through it. This is our little big dog.

 

[teejk]

I agree it is that but because it can inflict pain it is more than just a leash/lead. On the positive side, its range is much greater than a physical lead or how far one can throw a bean bag, shoe, etc. Still, I just use the vibrate mode.

If it works for you, then good! And btw, our collar had a variable "zap" setting on the remote. In our case I don't think we ever used more than level 2 (no where near bringing the dog to his knees). And we always preceded the zap with the beep so after 2 days that's all he needed to hear. Every dog is different though.

 

[TimberHole]

An e-collar is a pressure implement just like a heeling stick, pinch collar or other pressure devices. I do use an e-collar to train but only after learning and understanding how to use it fairly. In my opinion it isn't fair to use pressure from the collar unless you have previously taught the dog how to turn the pressure off.

As an example, pressure conditioning to the here command uses continuous pressure, beginning very low, and is turned off when the dog gets to the handlers side. To guarantee success, this is done with the dog on a check cord. This teaches the dog that as soon as it reaches your side the pressure is turned off. A lab will often learn this in a couple of good sessions. I've not had a Jack Russell so I can't help you there.

It seems that many that are opposed to collars do not understand the correct way to use them. A collar is not for punishment and isn't used to hurt the dog. My dog is my buddy and wears a collar every time we train.........and that's every day.

 

[TomSeller]

Maybe I'm lucky, maybe I am persistent with training and voice control. I have called both my current Heeler and Border Collie dogs off of a rabbit at 5'. I have called them off of deer, squirrels, etc.

Neither was obedient when I got them as rescues, each had 2 or 3 years of bad habits. The Heeler was particularly head strong but lots of work and bonding resulted in a great dog.