Does Branson suffer from Cavitation Cooling Issues?

[Zork]

Greetings all! I hope this new year finds everyone in good health.

My question pertains to diesels and the phenomena of cavitation/corrosion issues within the cooling system.

Does the Kukje/Cummins diesel require the additional SCA's necessary to prevent cavitation. Either way, I use a HD diesel coolant designed with SCA's in order to prevent cavitation but I wanted to know if it was necessary.

Some say that cavitation is only a problem with "wet" cylinder liners. Others have said that it occurs on all HD or diesel engines. I have seen many individuals reporting that cavitation has occurred on their diesel engine with dry sleeves. Others have reported the purpose of wet sleeves was to reduce the down time in changing out the damaged cylinder wall.

Thanks for reading my post.

Any thoughts?

 

[Vtnewbie]

Yikes, now you've got me worrying too. What kind of coolant are you using? If that's the good stuff I'll go change out my coolant this weekend...

 

[Texasmark]

I think you are correct in talking about liners (wet sleeves for sure) having the problem. I have asked around and nobody has been able to show me concrete proof that it is restricted to the compression and resultant movement of the liner.I had lined diesels and always used additives when there wasn't an ion filter cartridge as part of the cooling system. OTR trucks use the filter as I had one on my Big Cam Cummins 400 hp and have seen them on other's trucks.

JD sells the liquid for things like the 4020 I had which I knew had liners; I overhauled it. On the 4010 and 4230 I had I ran it regardless, not knowing for sure, lined or not. I put in my Branson just as a precaution and I know it is a bored block as are my Ford 2000 and 3000s. Not very expensive, instructions on the bottle, worth the peace of mind.

Mark

 

[Zork]

Sorry for the delay in response, I am not receiving my subscription updates.

I used Fleet Charge (FC) from Advance Auto. FC is $16 for 100% and includes the SCA additives. Final Charge from NAPA is $26 for 100%. Any supermarket or WalMart has distilled water for about $1 a gallon to make up your 50/50 mixture.

 

[Zork]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

If you own or know someone with a heavy duty engine (diesel?) this article is worth the read.

Cavitation Article

Thank you for reading.

 

[Texasmark]

You may have answered the susceptibility question accidentally. First off thanks for the very professional illustration. Must be somebody's training tool for mechanics. Obvious a lot of time went into it's preparation.

I note in particular the explosion and expanding cylinder walls immediately following, before the piston has had time to start it's downward movement. I think this is the caveat, the pressure vacuum between the cylinder wall returning to it's normal shape faster than the fluid can follow. Makes sense.

Next thing of importance is the phrase: "If the walls were thick enough they would be able to withstand the pressure jump and not expand." That can make the difference on some engines where the cylinders are an integral part of the block casting and may be the problem with removable liners.

Removable liners are what allows one to do what's called an "in frame" overhaul where the engine remains in the vehicle and the parts are changed out. Saves a lot of time and expense in not having to pull the block. Other thing, as stated is fast cylinder replacement if you have just one bad. If you ever had a 4020 Deere apart with the (wet) liners out, there is little to the block. Not much support for the liners except at both ends. Easy to see how that could distort.

Don't agree on the consumer guinea pig statement. OTR trucks have been using ion filters for many years. Like my Big Cam Cummins was like a '79 and it had one. My JD 4010 and 4020 were '60's vintage.

On using too much, the additive that I use, which as stated I obtain from JD states on the bottle how much to use and warns about over dosing being a problem as stated.

On the problem occurring around a couple of hundred thousand miles, taking an average 50 mph for a number, probably a lot less if you figure idling time and town driving, 200,000 miles equates to 4000 hours of operating time. So if you have 4000 hours on your tractor and it's susceptible then you might start worrying.

Again, I just use it for peace of mind. I use the regular long life AF at 50:1 and the JD additive.

My 2c,
Mark

 

[Texasmark]

I was killing the cabin fever doldrums today and scanned a Blue Book from TSC. In the coolant chemicals section I came across their "Fleet Charge" SCA Precharged Antifreeze. In the verbiage they say".......contains Nitrite for wet sleeve cylinder liner protection."

So, if you don't have wet sleeves, and mine doesn't, you don't need it........apparently. Funny I didn't know about it until I got a JD 4020 and had to do an overhaul. As stated I had an ion filter in my OTR truck which was also wet sleeved but didn't know it at the time nor the sleeve pitting, nor the necessity for the filter.

HTH,

Mark

 

[Zork]

I have never experienced this problem other than observing cavitation deterioration on water pump blades.

The diesel owners of 6.9 and 7.3 engines report their sleeves are dry and apparently suffer from cavitation as well. My understanding is that the cavitation occurs on both types of engines if not treated, dry and wet sleeves. The only difference is the wet sleeved cylinders can be replaced without removing the engine.

Either way, since the SCA treated coolant is the same price as regular coolant I think it is wise to use the SCA type and monitor the quality of the coolant.

 

[LincTex]

The diesel owners of 6.9 and 7.3 engines report their sleeves are dry and apparently suffer from cavitation as well. My understanding is that the cavitation occurs on both types of engines if not treated, dry and wet sleeves. The only difference is the wet sleeved cylinders can be replaced without removing the engine.

Only the 7.3 IDI had the bad cavitation problem. It's an over-bored 6.9 - - the 6.9 cylinder walls are thick enough; this isn't typically a problem with them.

As cheap as coolant is versus a new engine, I'd change it *long* before there's any question about whether it's still good or not.