Document preparation fees--RIPOFF

[JDgreen227]

Is it just me or does anyone else resent the bloated surcharge many retailers tack onto your truck, trailer, etc. purchase for "document preparation fees"? I was reviewing the papers I had for my utility trailer purchase almost 3 years ago, and on the sales contract they had added a $50 charge for document preparation fees, and I refused to sign the sales contract, and threatened to walk out and buy elsewhere unless they removed the charge.

$50 to send my title application and license plate registration to the secretary of state office, and then send me the new plate from the selling dealer? Wow...$3 cost for postage and ten minutes work for their office girl...FIFTY BUCKS. What a ripoff. The salesman deducted the $50 because he knew I wasn't going to pay it.

 

[crbr]

Is it just me or does anyone else resent the bloated surcharge many retailers tack onto your truck, trailer, etc. purchase for "document preparation fees"? I was reviewing the papers I had for my utility trailer purchase almost 3 years ago, and on the sales contract they had added a $50 charge for document preparation fees, and I refused to sign the sales contract, and threatened to walk out and buy elsewhere unless they removed the charge.

$50 to send my title application and license plate registration to the secretary of state office, and then send me the new plate from the selling dealer? Wow...$3 cost for postage and ten minutes work for their office girl...FIFTY BUCKS. What a ripoff. The salesman deducted the $50 because he knew I wasn't going to pay it.

I agree. Most all automobile sales have the fee and most all people never dispute it beyond the first encounter of intimidation.

Back a few years I had two machines lined up to go, right from the lot to the house. Got down to signing the papers and there is was. Fifty dollars for each to register. I ask once and the guy stuttered and mumbled something about everyone gets this fee applied to them and brushed me off. I walked out of his small buzzard roost. A lost sale of ~$60,000 over a mere $100.00 rip-off.

Say what you will in defense (or not). I can drive to my county courthouse for a lot less than the fee. I dare say that the once a week trip to the courthouse of all weekly sales registrations gets cabbaged. If this fee is justified for office work, that's a tip of which I will never pay.


.

 

[Bird]

$50 is, of course, some extra profit for them, but in addition to the office personnel preparing the paperwork and the postage you mentioned, someone has to get that paperwork to the license plate issuing authority (county tax office in my part of the country), maybe spend a bit of time standing around waiting for it to be processed and get the plates, so you have an employee's time and transportation to and from the issuing authority. I may be wrong, but I think $50 is a pretty standard amount. On the paperwork of the last vehicle I bought, it was called a "documentary fee". The salesman called when he got the license plates (less than 2 miles from my house) and when I went after the plates, they put them on the car. And yep, they made a few more dollars and I didn't have to go stand in line to get the plates and didn't have to put them on the car. Yep, I was lazy.

As you said, if you object strenuously enough and they want the same badly enough; i.e., enough profit already, they may waive that fee OR I think you can take the paperwork and apply for the title and license plates yourself.

When I bought a motorhome in Las Vegas in 1991, I just got the statement of origin and other paperwork, and came back to Texas to pay the sales, apply for title, and get the license plates. And when I bought a trailer from Lowe's this year, they didn't even give me the option of them doing it; they just gave me all the paperwork and I went straight to the tax office and paid for my license plate.

So for the dealer to do it is a little extra expense, but I don't really object as long as they're up front about it and list it separately on the paperwork.

 

[PoorMansCat]

Maybe I'm just getting old.. but I will not pay these fees either. I have walked out of more than one dealership for "suspect" paperwork.
Another standard sales practice of automobile dealerships is to calculate the sales tax on the wrong line, thereby inflating the number. This is extremely easy for them to slide by when/if there is a trade-in and payoff amount on the trade-in... Pay particular attention when purchasing a new vehicle and take the time to put pencil to paper on the final sales dollar amount....

In my case, when I was in the middle of working out the final paperwork with the "finance manager" I stopped him, asked for a calculator... he looked bewildered and asked why, I asked him what the local taxes were, and he immediately said , oh, that does look a little high... he then tried to blame it on the salesman for "putting it into the computer wrong!!".
It was off by over 2K.... I backed out of the deal at that point and walked away... the guy was red faced, he knew he had been caught.

 

[Bird]

Maybe I'm just getting old.. but I will not pay these fees either. I have walked out of more than one dealership for "suspect" paperwork.
Another standard sales practice of automobile dealerships is to calculate the sales tax on the wrong line, thereby inflating the number. This is extremely easy for them to slide by when/if there is a trade-in and payoff amount on the trade-in...

If they're profit margin is too small for them to write off the documentary fee, then they'll let you walk. But if they calculate the sales tax wrong . . . well, I'd want to know whether it was a mistake or on purpose.

Of course, I can be hard headed about some things, too.:laughing: Nine years ago, I bought a used F150 from a Ford dealer. When I made the deal with the salesman, there were a couple of minor things I wanted done to the truck and I also told him they'd have to put a new state safety inspection sticker on it. He readily agreed. But when I went to pick it up, no new inspection sticker. He said the one on the truck wouldn't expire for a couple of months so they couldn't put a new one on it. I assured him they could put a new one on it anytime. He refused, so I headed for the door. He said, "You mean you'd back out of a deal over an inspection sticker?" I said, "Nope, but apparently you would, and I will back out of a deal over a lie." And I left. It was about 22 miles home and by the time I got there, he was calling begging me to come back. He finally talked me into going back, and of course, the truck had a new inspection sticker.:laughing:

 

[greasemonkeyok]

All of the "tack on" fees are pure profit to the dealership. Do you think they are going to send the file clerk/notary home just because you won't pay for something that should be included in the purchase price?

I always make my offer on their paperwork as "notwithstanding any printed provisions herein appearing to the contrary, X$, inclusive of all dealer fees and taxes owed by the dealership". I had one dealer try to add on their personal property tax on a vehicle that had been sitting on the lot for six months.

National used car chain wanted to charge me $50 to do the paperwork on a vehicle I was selling to them. Yes, the back of the paperwork said there would be a $50 deduction from the price paid for "notary fees". I walked out and sold the vehicle for $500 more to the dealer I originally bought the car from, but had to drive 20 minutes.

 

[powerstroke444e]

Same story here was dealing on new ford in 02and dealer/owner sent me in finance office to finish up deal to order truck. Finance guy tries to tell me that there's charge for special ordering a truck.
I walked out went to different dealer and ordered a new truck from fyi dodge dealer and have bought 5+ from him since. As I have more respect for the dodge dealer he always gives out the door price we shake hands and price has never changed.

 

[JDgreen227]

Back in April of Y2K, we agreed to buy a new GMC Yukon XL using the GMS (General Motors Stock) plan from a local dealership. By stock, I refer to a vehicle sitting on the lot. Their business manager added a $30 document preparation fee to the sales price, and according to the regulations for GMO and GMS purchases, no documentation fees were to apply. We signed the contract, and then I sent a letter asking what the $30 was for, and got a written reply from the business manager saying "it is for the preparation of all paperwork"...

Well, I sent copies of the letters to BOTH the GM central office and the Michigan Dept. of state, and suggested they investigate just how many new GMS and GMO customers at that dealership had been charged the $30 fee. A few days after we got an apology letter and a $30 check from the dealership general manager, there was a notice in the local paper saying the general manager had been 'reassigned" and was no longer with the dealership...and when we went back to refinance the truck using a home equity loan, neither was the business manager. I still wonder how many buyers they ripped off with the illegal $30 fee.

 

[Bird]

he always gives out the door price

I guess I should have mentioned before that the "out the door price" or total price is the only thing I negotiate for. So I don't really care what they put on the paperwork as long as the bottom line is what we agreed on.

A few times in years past, it's been comical watching some young salesman trying to calculate backwards from a total price to figure tax, title, license, and base vehicle price.:laughing:

 

[dodge man]

And how about the paint protectant and fabric stain guard sir? Don't you want to protect your new car? Another example of a dealers way to make another buck. If I feel I got a deal on the car, I go ahead and pay the document fees, otherwise I *****.

 

[LD1]

I guess I should have mentioned before that the "out the door price" or total price is the only thing I negotiate for. So I don't really care what they put on the paperwork as long as the bottom line is what we agreed on.

This is how I always negotiate too. So how they get to that number, I dont care, just so long as it is the # I was after.

And even all these fees and what not when buying cars, trailers, etc is NOTHING compaired to buying a house.:confused2:

 

[Fixemall]

After my wife modified an Equinox in the grocery store parking lot last year with my truck, I decided it was time to add a vehicle just for her...long story short all the dealers except one thought I just fell off a turnip truck, one guy actually worked up a quote at full MSRP and let me walk. Of the five salesmen I talked to, I'm positive none could have successfully helped my daughter with her fifth grade math homework, I finally headed another 20 miles into the country and dealt with the owner of the dealership and got the car for less than GMS price, he also got the car from another lot that had already put on paint protection, naturally he did not charge me for it. Just proves my theory that if you want a deal look to country folks not city slicksters.

 

[JDgreen227]

After my wife modified an Equinox in the grocery store parking lot last year with my truck, I decided it was time to add a vehicle just for her...long story short all the dealers except one thought I just fell off a turnip truck, one guy actually worked up a quote at full MSRP and let me walk. Of the five salesmen I talked to, I'm positive none could have successfully helped my daughter with her fifth grade math homework, I finally headed another 20 miles into the country and dealt with the owner of the dealership and got the car for less than GMS price, he also got the car from another lot that had already put on paint protection, naturally he did not charge me for it. Just proves my theory that if you want a deal look to country folks not city slicksters.

My most satisfactory new and used vehicle purchases were at a rural area Ford dealership, they were dead honest and made not the slightest effort to flimflam me or tack anything onto the price. And, get this....I purchased a used 1990 Ford F 150 for about $9000, this was back in early '92, I had given them a $50 cash deposit to hold the truck, and while we were finalizing the purchase paperwork, they had made an error and mistakenly written down "$100 cash down payment", and the salesman asked me if I had another $50 on me, well I didn't. He said OK, and they ate the $50 although they were selling me the truck for a lot less than the city dealers wanted. I was sorry when that dealership closed. But I always wondered if they closed because they were operating on a small margin of profit.

 

[JDgreen227]

This is how I always negotiate too. So how they get to that number, I dont care, just so long as it is the # I was after.

And even all these fees and what not when buying cars, trailers, etc is NOTHING compaired to buying a house.:confused2:

Yeah, that huge long list of "closing costs"-- I gave you a foot in the door to start a new thread....:laughing:

 

[Bird]

Just proves my theory that if you want a deal look to country folks not city slicksters.

Yeah, but there's sure exceptions to that.:laughing: When my wife totalled a car in 1999 and I bought a new one, I really wanted to deal with the country dealer that was closest to us, but (1) he didn't have what I wanted; would have to order one or get it from another dealer, and (2) his price was way above the big city dealer that had the car in stock.

 

[ultrarunner]

He said, "You mean you'd back out of a deal over an inspection sticker?" I said, "Nope, but apparently you would, and I will back out of a deal over a lie." And I left. It was about 22 miles home and by the time I got there, he was calling begging me to come back. He finally talked me into going back, and of course, the truck had a new inspection sticker.:laughing:

Yes... interesting how things only go one way till someone calls them on it.

The Buyer is King as long as he is willing to walk.

Too bad negotiation skills are not taught in school.

I remember being around my Grandfather when negotiating a sale... sometimes that $50 or $75 dollars was insurmountable... each party can only do what it can.

He never charged a documentation fee ever... he said it is part of selling a vehicle.

Just like Lenders that Charge Warehouse fees and other things that pop up at the closing...

There comes a point where you have to either accept or reject...

 

[JDgreen227]

I recall reading maybe fifteen years back new vehicles were probably the only item being sold where the prospective buyer actually knew what they cost the seller. Makes me wonder if we would be willing to pay $3 a gallon for milk if we knew it cost Kroger only $1.75, or willing to pay the furniture store $2000 for a sofa if we knew it cost them half that much.

 

[ultrarunner]

Another thing about cars...

Almost always another new car just like the one you are looking at down the road... not quite the case with used ones.

My brother and his wife wanted a Honda Minivan... all the local Dealers, without exceptions had huge markups at the time in the SF Bay Area... Honda's have always done well here.

So my brother, on a lark calls a Dealer 3 hours away in Bakersfield and the owner answers and he tells him what he is looking for. The owner says he has exactly what my brother is looking for and has been unable to sell it... apparently 40k Honda's are a hard sell in AG country as opposed to the Bay Area.

Anyway, the owner makes him a great deal under sticker, which is really great because back home they are well over sticker with add ons to boot.

We drive down and the guy is as nice as he can be... thanks us for driving down... I ask how he came to have a car he has no market for and he said Honda wanted each Dealer to have at least on fully loaded van in inventory.

My sister-in-law was not with us... at the last minute she was not feeling well, which proved a problem because she needed to sign the DMV papers... the owner says... I shouldn't do this and then gives us all the paper work and says have her sign it and overnight it back on Monday...

At least one Dealer still has the personal touch...

The difference in attitude was night and day... instead of treating us as if he was doing us a favor by "Letting" us buy... he was very grateful for the business.

That was 4 years ago and the car is been great.

 

[PoorMansCat]

And how about the paint protectant and fabric stain guard sir? Don't you want to protect your new car? Another example of a dealers way to make another buck. If I feel I got a deal on the car, I go ahead and pay the document fees, otherwise I *****.

yep.. i forgot about "clear coat paint"... thats a good one...
I saw that on a Dodge lot one time on every vehicle window,"dealer installed clear coat paint protection".... funny thing is, they did not even have a body shop...

 

[hawkeye08]

... and the one I had not heard before last year was a protective coating the dealer can put on the windshield to help keep rock chips from occurring. It was several hundred dollars if I recall.

This same dealer adds window tint on all the new trucks that come in, $195. We ordered our truck and had them do the spray in bed liner (part of the original deal) and then also had GMC mud flaps installed. We did not ask for or approve the tint. When we were doing the paperwork when we picked the truck up, the sales person got to the tint charge and and just crossed it out. She knew that we did not order it and they would have to eat it.

She actually had to adjust several numbers to get the bottom line we had agreed to, no issues...