Do you plant trees?

[ponytug]

I remember bucking elm with a two man saw as an adolescent, and then splitting it. It felt like each log was never going to give up the fight. Definitely a wood that warms you twice.

A couple of years later, I was home for a visit and went out to split some wood for the fire. I took a might swing with the axe at the log, bracing for the fight of elm and the two pieces went flying ten feet either side of me. The current wood was oak, much easier to split. Ooops. Time to dial it back.

Yes, it warps and splits, but it was a durable wood in its time.

There are hybrids now available that are Dutch elm disease resistant. There are a few American elms left that had resistance, or were located too far from other elms to catch it.

All the best,

Peter

 

[JasperFrank]

The tree to have planted, 25 years ago, here in Jasper Oregon, seems to have been the Ponderosa Pine. My neighbor planted those, which made no sense to me, as they are a Central Oregon Tree.

I, thinking I knew better, planted Red Cedar. His trees did great and are 30 feet tall now and healthy. What I didn't know is that Ponderosa were common in this area, but had all been logged off in the 30's. You just didn't see them any more.

Very few of the cedars i planted survived.. Maybe one in 10. And of those, very few are 30 feet. i blame the elk on this, as they are the destroyers of trees. i have a cedar "shrub," and another 30 foot tree that are right next to each other, planted at the same time. Its just that one was molested as a seedling by an elk or a buck and never grew right after that.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

The tree to have planted, 25 years ago, here in Jasper Oregon, seems to have been the Ponderosa Pine. My neighbor planted those, which made no sense to me, as they are a Central Oregon Tree.

I, thinking I knew better, planted Red Cedar. His trees did great and are 30 feet tall now and healthy. What I didn't know is that Ponderosa were common in this area, but had all been logged off in the 30's. You just didn't see them any more.

Very few of the cedars i planted survived.. Maybe one in 10. And of those, very few are 30 feet. i blame the elk or this, as they are the destroyers of trees. i have a cedar "shrub," and another 30 foot tree that are right next to each other, planted at the same time. Its just that one was molested as a seedling by an elk or a buck and never grew right after that.

That is super frustrating. I will nurse a tree along for years, until it’s a beautiful 20 foot tall specimen and overnight a whitetail deer will completely destroy it rubbing his antlers. And leave a nearby, scrubby, zero value tree completely unmolested. We have way too many deer and it would seem that the primary control on their numbers is cars hitting them on the highway.

 

[newbury]

That is super frustrating. I will nurse a tree along for years, until it’s a beautiful 20 foot tall specimen and overnight a whitetail deer will completely destroy it rubbing his antlers. And leave a nearby, scrubby, zero value tree completely unmolested. We have way too many deer and it would seem that the primary control on their numbers is cars hitting them on the highway.

But why should you care? You've already made the point that the state should regulate the forests.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

But why should you care? You've already made the point that the state should regulate the forests.

So no one in a regulated industry should care about anything that effects them? The tobacco farmers in my state are intensely regulated and they still care very much about getting their crops planted and harvested successfully. Many people have a knee jerk, negative reaction to any form of public oversight and that’s not something that can be reasoned away.

 

[lman]

I knew a lawyer that farmed on the side. He ran over a deer antler in the field and tried to file a claim for his tractor tire with the Dept. of Natural Resources. It didn't go far. Only a lawyer would come up with an idea like that.

 

[Oaktree]

If American elm is anything like Siberian elm (that are invasive species in the west), the grain is too twisted to saw into boards. It’s even difficult to split for firewood.

Yeah, American elm is nasty to split too, stringy wood with twisted grain. Not every piece, but a lot. Burns OK, but needs a hot fire to get it going.
Maybe 40 years ago I helped a friend clear a lot of dead elms on his uncle's property for a share of the wood. Didn't have a splitter at the time. Man, that was a lot of work splitting that with a sledge and wedges! Wouldn't want to do it today.

 

[Oaktree]

I have been a practicing forester “out west” for 40+ years. Your comment is dead wrong and you have no clue what you are talking about.

Curiously, does the USFS give permits to take dead & down wood on national forest land in the west? They do (or at least did) here in N.H. I'd find a section that'd been logged 6 months or so earlier and get the tops, etc. Hasn't been much NF logging lately close enough to make it worthwhile so I don't know if they still do it.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

Curiously, does the USFS give permits to take dead & down wood on national forest land in the west? They do (or at least did) here in N.H. I'd find a section that'd been logged 6 months or so earlier and get the tops, etc. Hasn't been much NF logging lately close enough to make it worthwhile so I don't know if they still do it.

Just heard this week on news they are starting to log again.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Curiously, does the USFS give permits to take dead & down wood on national forest land in the west? They do (or at least did) here in N.H. I'd find a section that'd been logged 6 months or so earlier and get the tops, etc. Hasn't been much NF logging lately close enough to make it worthwhile so I don't know if they still do it.

I know that they do in Idaho.

 

[ericm979]

Curiously, does the USFS give permits to take dead & down wood on national forest land in the west? They do (or at least did) here in N.H. I'd find a section that'd been logged 6 months or so earlier and get the tops, etc. Hasn't been much NF logging lately close enough to make it worthwhile so I don't know if they still do it.

There was some form of firewood cutting allowed in every national forest I worked in except the wilderness areas. It varies from district to district and even within districts. You used to have to go ask but now it's all on web sites. Usually personal use only but when there's a limit it's often a good amount. The permits are usually cheap.

Cleaning up slash is a service to everyone, it ought to be encouraged.

 

[etpm]

Here is an excellent article about why we don't plant many trees after a timber harvest.

Oh, You’re a Forester…Do You Plant Trees?

While planting trees after logging is common practice in other parts of the country and the world, here in New England tree planting as a part of forestry is unusual. Instead of planting, we typically rely on natural regeneration of trees.

extension.unh.edu

Here in the PNW, Western WA State in particular, when a forested area is clear cut and not replanted with trees alders will grow first. The alders will stay for a very long time, by the human lifespan scale, then evergreens will start to take over. Here on Whidbey Island after about 300 years the forest will be cedars, which is considered the mature forest.

Eric

 

[Jstpssng]

Here in the PNW, Western WA State in particular, when a forested area is clear cut and not replanted with trees alders will grow first. The alders will stay for a very long time, by the human lifespan scale, then evergreens will start to take over. Here on Whidbey Island after about 300 years the forest will be cedars, which is considered the mature forest.

Eric

I believe that was the purpose of the article in my link. A lot of people believe that it's necessary to plant in order to regenerate. In some areas such as where you are that's the case. However, we have different conditions and different forest types; more often, we have too many trees. As an example, in 2009 I had a 2 acre field reclaimed which had grown back to trees. I kept most of it cleared yet along the edges I am once again cutting trees 5-40 feet tall.

 

[jyoutz]

Curiously, does the USFS give permits to take dead & down wood on national forest land in the west? They do (or at least did) here in N.H. I'd find a section that'd been logged 6 months or so earlier and get the tops, etc. Hasn't been much NF logging lately close enough to make it worthwhile so I don't know if they still do it.

In my Region (AZ and NM) we treat about 35,000 acres annually with green timber sales, thinning and burning, and over 200k acres with prescribed burning alone. We issue fuelwood cutting permits (4 cords per person) for $20 to cut dead and down wood (no limit on these permits). And we have special green fuelwood cutting areas too (by paid permit). Once timber sales are closed out, anyone with a dead and down fuelwood permit can go into those areas and cut leftover slash (tops, cull logs, etc…).

 

[jyoutz]

I believe that was the purpose of the article in my link. A lot of people believe that it's necessary to plant in order to regenerate. In some areas such as where you are that's the case. However, we have different conditions and different forest types; more often, we have too many trees. As an example, in 2009 I had a 2 acre field reclaimed which had grown back to trees. I kept most of it cleared yet along the edges I am once again cutting trees 5-40 feet tall.

Question: do you get natural regeneration of desired species?

 

[JasperFrank]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. On the 16 acres, out of the 20 that I bought, the county decided to split the tax lot into two, that 4 acres would be taxed at residential, and the rest F2 deferred. After many years of heavy manual labor attempting to clean up and improve the 16 acre wood lot selectively, getting rid of under canopy trash trees, planting trees, and having no effect on the productivity, I should have clear cut everything but the few mature marketable trees left over from a prior "clear cut and run," done in the early 70's. And then replanted the whole site in Doug Fir or Ponderosa. Yet, I waited too long to come to this conclusion. Cause everyone around me clear cut in the last 10 years. And if I had a do over, I would have sited the house on the far western edge of the property, and petitioned that I only want 2 acres as the residential site, dozed and re-planted the rest of the property. I can't really complain though, because I have been able to live in a paradise any way, for 30 years. A Wood Lot is like owning your own personal park, and you can make trails, that are all yours.

 

[MossRoad]

When we reforested parts of our property, we were advised to not go with one or two species, as if an insect or disease came in that were specific to that species, it could wipe everything in one pass. So we went with the recommendation to plant a windbreak of mixed small trees and shrubs around the exterior, then two rows of 2-3 year old pines, then filled the interior with alternating rows of white pine, mixed hardwood, white pine, mixed hardwood, repeat. The pines grow faster than the hardwoods in a pyramidal shape. This causes the hardwoods to be stressed for sunllight and forces them to grow tall and straight in reverse-pyramidal shape in a race with the pines to compete for sunlight. The hardwoods grown this way will be good for lumber or veneer if we or our kids ever decide to sell them. There are 7-8 different kinds of oaks, tulip poplar, walnut, hickory, etc... That was 32 years ago. The trees are past 50' and the hardwoods are poking out of the pines pretty well.